Abortion....any exceptions?

(Warner Joseph Miller) #1

Hey there, CONNECT community! :wave:t6::grinning:

Quick (or maybe, not so quick) question: is there ever any circumstance; any situation where abortion is, for lack of a better word, “justifiable”? Rape? Incest? Day or maybe week after conception? If the life of the potential mother is in mortal danger as a result of being pregnant? Anything?

Thx, fam. Cheers!

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(Isaiah J. Armstrong) #2

I’d only say when the mother’s life is in danger.

If a child is born of rape or incest, it is not the child’s fault. The child should have a chance of life. The child can be put up for adoption, if need be, but not killed because of someone’s sin.

This video helps me with the abortion discussion:

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(Cameron Kufner) #3

Honestly, I’m against all abortions except for cases such as rape, incest, and danger to the mothers life. I know someone, a dear sister in the Lord, who had to make the heartbreaking decision to have one because she was raped. She did not become pregnant out of her own freewill, she was violated. The easy answer is “Well, put them up for adoption or in an orphanage.” It’s not the same thing as being a member of a real family, though. You have no idea how much those who were adopted or were an orphan struggle and carry that for the rest of their life. That being said, I don’t see a problem with it under those circumstances I listed. Yes, all life is valuable, but if someone’s freewill is directly violated, or another’s life is in danger, then I don’t see the problem with it. Honestly, those cases are so small though, they make up less than 1% of the total abortions in history (statistic released from Planned Parenthood). For the record, I am not justifying all abortions because of those other cases, all abortions are horrific to me, except for those cases.

(Sara Isaac) #4

Here’s an article following the new legislations of Alabama banning abortion:

While I believe that the reasons mentioned in this article are valid, I don’t agree with all of them. I can never imagine myself being in any of those situations mentioned and neither can anyone who has never actually been in them.
Human life is valuable since day one. And I believe that dealing with the matter as a mere theoretical idea is a grave mistake. I am sure many of the women who had to go through this were really in a great deal of pain during the process and deep regret afterwards. So, my heart goes to all women who had to go through this.
When I read that article, and with every point it made, I got jealous! Why would anyone who lives in such a country have an abortion? And while the only exception made implictly which is when the fetus presents a medical threat to the mother, then it’s okay to abort the baby. And this is rare in that sense. Coming from a middle eastern society, there are real threats to the mother that are not medical. If a girl got pregnant outside of wedlock, she could get killed easily. If a girl got rapped, with or without being pregnant, she could get killed easily as well. In some countries, due to poverty, lack of education, healthcare and childcare services, an extra child could really lead to rapid deterioration of an already economically depressed families. There is no adoption! Only orphanges where they get to leave when they are 16. And the list goes on and on and on.
God commanded Adam and Eve to multiply. And maybe some of the cases I have mentioned is due to getting off the right track (sex out of marriage, violence, social injustice, self-centerdness).
I think although we should declare the truth of God, we should realize that this not a flat line matter, it’s quite complex beyond our comprehension. I believe that God is just. His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. But most importantly, no one loves both the mother and her child more than He does. If someone is going through that, I’d point them to Jesus, and point to His sacrifice and demonstrate that sometimes taking that path hurts and demands sacrifices and pray that God gives them the help they need if they decide to keep the baby. And if they can’t make the sacrifice, I’d point them to Jesus too :slight_smile: I have no business in it. He can give them what they need, peace, assurance and sometimes forgiveness.

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(Anthony Costello ) #5

From a purely logical standpoint, or let’s be more precise, from a proper use of practical reason, I don’t see that abortion is ever allowable except when the mother’s life is at risk. But let me bracket that for a moment.

With regard to rape and incest (I always assume that an instance of incest is rape, but I suppose in this awful world they are not always one and the same). However, with regard to these two egregious examples of moral evil, it still does not follow that, if the baby produced by the immoral act is truly a human person, that the baby can be killed because it was unwanted. The process by which the baby is produced is irrelevant to a) the intrinsic value of the baby, and b) the moral status of the baby, meaning that the baby cannot carry any guilt for the act that produced it.

That said, with regard to rape or incest, as problematic as it might be for the mother to bring the baby to term and birth it, I cannot see any reason to think that an abortion in these cases would be moral. It would be an immoral act, thus constituting sin. I’m not making any judgment at this point in my argument about how to handle the aftermath or how to care for the mother who does choose an abortion in the wake of rape or incest, I am just saying that practically speaking we cannot consider it to be morally acceptable.

more later,
Anthony

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(Tara Pauls) #6

Thanks for this timely question. When I was younger, I was easily swayed by the opinions of other Christians and non-Christians alike. I am sure that I changed my opinion many times.

Of late my thinking has been more around the value of human life and how much the Trinity sacrificed so that we may have life to the full. I wonder what God thinks about the issue of abortion.

It is difficult not to get caught up in the trappings of “rights” and all that this entails. When we consider extreme cases such as rape, our thoughts go immediately to the violation of the woman’s rights. In this light it is easy to think of a resulting child as part of the problem.

I also think about the potential issues facing an adopted child including abandonment.

My personal opinion is that God values all human life because He is our Creator. He would not create a life if it lacked intrinsic value, no matter the circumstances under which that life was made possible. I believe that we can take too much credit for bringing life into this world, forgetting that God is the one who makes that life possible. As such, we may be tempted to assume that life is about our own personal benefit and not the “other”. We are easily swayed to prioritize our own convenience, our own choice over that of others.

I pray that God would grant each and every one of us wisdom and grace as we dialogue with others about this divisive issue.

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(Andrew Ingram) #7

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and starting this discussion. It’s an important one. I have some thoughts on this topic and would love some insight.

  1. I was talking to my uncle about the new ban on nearly all abortions that was passed in Alabama a few days ago. Facetiously he said that if the primary concern in this debate is the violation of a woman’s right to make decisions about her body than we need to share that same concern for female fetuses. The law should then state that all male fetuses should be aborted but the female fetuses need to be protected. This obviously reminds of Pharaoh’s decree to kill all young boys. This sounds like a silly argument but I’m trying to figure out where the logic breaks down. Help?

  2. From the posts above and many other conversations I’ve had with other Christians it’s clear that we wrestle with the few cases where a woman becomes pregnant because she’s been violated. I’m curious if you think it’s fair to say that by making a distinction like that we’re going down a slippery slope. Here’s why I’m wondering that. In our times, another hot topic, besides abortion, is mental health, which is sparked by and deeply connected to the mass-shootings that have taken place in the last few years spark. Is their potential for the same reasoning to seep into the abortion debate? If we allow a woman to abort their babies because they’ve been violated by another man will we also allow women to abort because they’re mentally ill?

Will this slippery slope then take us down further paths to talking about the influence of culture on a persons mind? Will we have to respond to people who that culture has led them to believe that sexual pleasure and sexual freedom is ultimate happiness? Will we then blame the messages that we receive from Hollywood, Instagram, fashion magazines, and the porn industry just like we blame rape and mental illness?

Would love to know if this reasoning is absurd or not.

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(Sara Isaac) #8

I was thinking about the same thing Andrew. There are two slippery slopes, one that would go back to the root of all evils and try to punish it, and the other that takes it further where it involves discarding babies with mental or physical disabilities, up to genetic manipulations and so on.
Would there ever be a cure to the root problem instead of the symptom? Would we ever hear legislations banning the things you’ve mentioned?
I think it’s important to realize that there is a percentage of abortions due to a discovery of a fetal defect. And this is a whole other story. I used to respond quickly to that matter until I came across my studies where we studied a wide range of congenital and developmental malformations. We were studying a certain syndrome where you wouldn’t imagine that only half of the embryos made with the defects survive, while the other half of the cases, the pregnancy is terminanted spontaneously. And this actually happened to someone I know. And it made me think, “Is this an act of grace from God on this family and the child that was to come?”

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(Lindsay Brandt) #9

Hello, @saraisaac. Thank you for your insights and response!

In regard to your thoughts on abortions due to fetal defect, you bring up the possibility of spontaneous pregnancy terminations due to embryonic defects being an act of grace by God. Am I understanding you correctly to say that you are thinking that abortions due to fetal defect are justifiable according to that premise? I know you didn’t say it, but it does seem to be implied in my understanding, and I want to make sure I am not misconstruing.

If I am understanding correctly, it is important to make the distinction here between Creator and creature. While the Creator, who has infinitely more knowledge and wisdom and understanding about everything going on, may bestow that grace (if, indeed, that is what he is doing and I will address that in a minute), we who are the creatures, who did not create the life and are incredibly limited in our knowledge, wisdom, and understanding pertaining to it and everything it affects and everything that would affect it in the grand scheme of things, cannot rightly call ending a pregnancy in such a circumstance grace–precisely because it is impossible for us to know all that we would need to know about the past, present, and future (which God is in simultaneously) about that life and everything surrounding it to be able to know what grace would properly look like in that situation. Does that make sense?

Also, the statement that a spontaneous termination of pregnancy due to a defective embryo being an act of grace from God on the family and the child must be based on faulty presuppositions of its own: 1) there was ever meant to be a child from that embryo in the first place and 2) that grace is necessarily an act that prevents hardship and 3) that God Himself assumes that some children born with malformations would not hold and could not bring any intrinsic value to the lives of both the child and the family into which it is born.

I was hesitant to name the first presupposition, because the Bible considers us uniquely crafted individuals with a divinely-ordained purpose from conception. However, my thought is that perhaps some conceptions, because they were defective, were spontaneously terminated because the embryos developed were not capable of containing life to begin with because of the defect. Not sure if that makes sense or not, but that is how I have worked out the thought in my mind so far. If that is the case, though, perhaps that was never a child meant to be by God in the first place, because it wasn’t supportive of human life.???

The second presupposition is biblically incorrect. Though there are times that God, in His grace, intervenes to prevent certain hardships for people, Paul, in talking about the thorn in his side he repeatedly asked God to take away, referred as God’s grace being bestowed not to necessarily remove hardship but to help develop us through it (2 Corinthians 12:6-10), and other Scripture also confirms this. This, I think, is related to the faultiness of presupposition 3.

These are just some initial thoughts I had while reading the response.

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(Lindsay Brandt) #10

Hey, @saraisaac. You have some good thoughts and ones that I have heard before. I have to think more on others’ responses before responding, but I had some thoughts to both of your responses which is why I’m only answering you right now. I’ll lay out my thoughts and see what you think.

@saraisaac, I respectfully disagree with you here. This is not beyond our ability to comprehend. If we are able to declare the truth of God about a matter, then we obviously comprehend it. It also means that God has clearly revealed to us His truth on that matter, meaning He has made it so that we can comprehend it. Though the pain and the situation are going to be difficult and complex to navigate, that does not mean that we are unable to comprehend right from wrong, as God has made it clear in His Word how we are to regard life from conception. As we grow and mature in Christ, we struggle with these hard things; we struggle with feeling wrong about doing what is right in extremely painful and difficult situations, because to our minds, it is incomprehensible why God would have us do this or that in such situations. But we ultimately learn (we must learn) to surrender in obedience to God despite how our feelings are trying to lead us, because how we feel is not truth, for the heart is deceptive above all things. Praise God, He is merciful when we sometimes choose to follow how we feel about something, but His mercy is always meant to draw us back to Him and obedience to His truth.
You’re right to say that God cares about the mother and the child more than anyone else, and it is precisely for that reason that we cannot justify any act of ending the life of the child.

First, I would suggest that we don’t live in bubbles so that what one does in a seemingly private situation does not affect anyone else; anything we do has social repercussions. In this case, we as a society are in the throws of deciding how to define life and deciding how much value to ascribe to it. When someone murders his/her child after it is born, it is somehow our business to deal with that, though the child was his/her own. A mother choosing to end her child’s life in the womb is not different. The Bible says we are to stand for truth and righteousness according to God’s truth, and it especially says that we are to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves (Proverbs 31:8-9)…quite the opposite of it not being our business.

That being said, I have extreme compassion for those who have already gone to have abortions. The effects of abortions on the mothers are usually harsh emotionally, mentally, and even, I’ve heard, physically. God can, indeed, give them what they need. However, that does not give any justification for us to not do what is right. God is ultimately in charge, but He has and does give us responsibility to take action in accordance with what He has outlined in His Word.

Okay, well, for what they’re worth (probably less than a penny :slight_smile: ), those are thoughts that I had while reading your well thought-out and compassionate responses. Looking forward to hearing back from you.

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(Sara Isaac) #11

Oh! Hi Lindsay! Great to hear from you.
I don’t want to say that I am playing the devil’s advocate here but rather I am trying to extend our understanding beyond the mere convictions that we all adhere to. That I used to reply so quickly to those questions, doesn’t mean that I don’t hold the same convictions I held before but rather I am trying to stretch my neck to peek into the existential aspect of those matters while being rooted in the Truth.
What I meant by His grace is in the exact context you’ve mentioned; yes God knows better! And while He is building us through hardships and not pampering us through life, He wouldn’t allow horrendous evils to take place. I think this is a centric belief for Christians: God is benevolent, God is omnipotent, God is omniscient. That’s how I saw that it was grace. But going through that thought and what you said:

I am afraid that we would get into the dilemma where we say, “God doesn’t mean for a lot of things to happen, but they do happen.”
So maybe it’s important here to distinguish between God’s will of decree and will of command. God doesn’t want to bring into us into the world with a single defect. And thought some atheists use these incidents to disprove the existence of God and His role as a creator, in the light of the bends, malformations and defects, we can comprehend more the beauty of his design and his imprint in human life.
Again, the evils of the world, pollution, poverty, greed…etc has an impact on both our spiritual and physical forms. And I personally disqualify myself from being a judge on that matter. Some countries can offer some great help to the disabled persons and their families on almost every level, financially, health-wise, emotionally in every way that you think. And that makes things, I want to say a bit easier but it actually makes a big deal of difference. I can’t declare a woman, in a depleted country, with no income, no health insurance, probably no where with a decent place to live, no special treatment would be offer, a murderer, I am in no position to make that judgement. Those children die before they have any time to live on public hospital floors. And before someone jumps and say, “this represents a few percentage”, no it doesn’t.
I always put that in mind:
Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them." Luke 11:46
So, when I talk to someone going through this, I will point them to Jesus not as a mean to end the discussion but because He cannot not understand them. I can almost be certain that every situation is unique, God is not going to respond similarily on every matter, He will respond uniquely, and He is the One who would carry the perosn along with their burden.

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(Sara Isaac) #12

Okay, not what I meant. But about that: It’s such a wild declaration to say that we fully grasp God’s truth. We can to some extent maybe, a great one even, grasp God’s truth declared in the Gospel and that whispered to us by His holy ghost.
What I meant is, there is a difference between mere theoretical knowledge of what would a situation look like and an experemential knowledge, where one actually went through the situation itself. Although you see me as being compassionate, I can’t even begin to understand what it would feel like!
The business I meant :grinning: I went on in the second reply, not to be a judge.
I know this is gonna get me in trouble and probably won’t be understood well, but I will give it a shot
Do I believe that there is not even an 0.0001% a chance that God’s opinion would be to abort a baby? I’d be an arrogant if I said No. And I’d be a fool if I said yes.
Please, while we go talk to the people about any of those matters: Abortion, transgenderism, same-sex attraction…etc don’t let the truth slip out of our mouths nonchalantly. The truth you are declaring is not easy. God Himself struggles with those matters and his heart is teared apart more than us!
I know we might have gotten a bit tense about it, but I don’t think we disagree at all. I hope you see what I am trying to do.

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(Lindsay Brandt) #13

Ah, I’m sorry I misunderstood, @saraisaac.

And you’re absolutely correct. We cannot, of course, fully grasp God’s truth on all matters. However, God’s Word is very clear about some things and doesn’t leave any room for doubt. We don’t have to wonder about God’s thought on abortion in any situation, since the fetus is regarded as a human life, and it isn’t arrogant to say so, because we can rest in what God has made known to us, though He has not made everything known to us. If God changed His declared precepts and principles for every situation, we would not have a God we could put any trust in, and we would not be able to call anything right or anything wrong, because it would all be relative.

I hear your heart here, @saraisaac, and I echo your sentiment and plea. I have walked with the Lord for 22 years. In that time, I have talked with friends who have same-sex attraction, and never did they ever feel condemned by me, because as we often stress here in Connect, we need to minister to the person, which means handling that person and his or her concerns with gentleness and respect, and sometimes that just meant listening and not saying a thing. Timing and being led by the Spirit is everything as we seek to lead someone to Christ and into all God has for him/her in Christ. I have talked with people who have had abortions or have thought about it with the same heart. We do need to speak the truth and be uncompromising in that, but we do it in love and need to be sensitive to where someone is at within the situation and in their search for truth. God does struggle with those matters, because He hurts for His creation, for those for whom He gave His Son, that they go through so much pain. That isn’t the same thing as His struggling with right and wrong in a situation or His own truth He has declared in His Word about the sacredness of every human life.

@saraisaac, I don’t at all feel tense in discussion with you. We are all here to learn and struggle with the hard stuff. I’ve been conversing with others on such matters for a long time, ever since I gave my life to the Lord 22 years ago, and experience has prepared me for different perspectives and viewpoints, and I welcome them. It is a privilege to converse with you on these matters :slight_smile: ).

(Sara Isaac) #14

That’s cool! I pray that God give you more and more opportunities.
So, no tension here. As we are both standing on the same ground, I can push a little further safely :smile:

God’s truth is somehow presented in Bible, but not contained in it. Physics is God’s truth, so is chemistry, so is Biology. And they are not in the Bible! That does not put them in a category of being less truth. The Bible doesn’t offer a solution for every single problem a human might face in every era. I could go in examples, but I guess no need to. So, you will probably say to me, “But Sara, we have enough grounding to rule in other matters that we might face.” And I agree but while Truth is absolute, our understanding to it is not, at least not in most of the times. There were many times when we were in a discussion group and two people just defend two opposite opinions on a certain timely matter, and you would just say, ‘I think they are both making good point. I can’t take a side.’ (If you’ve never been in that situation before you should know that your discussion groups is not as cool as mine and you should come and visit us asap :sunglasses:)

I so agree on that. I am sorry I didn’t make it clear that I meant that He struggles with the sentiment and all.
I have an analogy. If you see a father telling his 17 year old son to see who is knocking on the front door, and in another incident, the father tells his other 5 year old son not ever open the door to anyone. Would that sound like father who is being contradictory with Himself?
Still, Lindsay, if we say that God makes opposite moves, it would mean that we do know all the moves and we have already found him guilty.
Some might find that the God who has struck Uzzah dead after he touched the Ark of covenant is quite opposite to the God who touched the coffin of the son of the widow of Nain and raised him from death!
We now can understand and reconciliate those things in the light of the Bible as a whole. But the story of humanity hasn’t reached its final chapter yet.

I don’t know why, but I am personally comfortable with doubt than I am with certainity. If we don’t have any speck of doubt, then God must be so manipulative that He just knows how to overwhelm you that you won’t be able to make a sound.

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(Luna) #15

Unless the mothers life is in danger I don’t see a reason to abort a child. People act like abortion will somehow “fix” the crime of rape or incest, but it doesn’t. Even if you have a miscarriage from the stress of the situation or don’t get pregnant you still have to deal with the trauma of what happened to you. And the way of dealing is not abortion its through therapy.

Plus kids who are adopted don’t always grow up in bad homes or unwanted. I have plenty of kids who are adopted in my family and they are happy. I know people personally who were adopted and live a productive life. The fact is you just don’t know what that child could grow up to be. They might be the person who cures cancer or they may just live an average life. Either way I have never heard any kids who’s parents considered abortion say “I wish I was aborted”.

Even then I could meet people half way and say okay then abortion allowed if the mother was raped, there was incest, or medical reasons. According to studies done by Alan Guttmacher Institute all 3 of those only account for around 5% of abortions done in the US. So I would be happy with 95% of abortions not happening just cause the mother doesn’t want a kid.

(Lindsay Brandt) #16

@saraisaac, I’m not sure I follow here. Could you explain more about thinking that God wouldn’t allow horrendous evils?

In context, my quote was in reference to your bringing up defective embryos being spontaneously terminated by the body, not in reference to whether or not God means for things to happen or not in general. However, as you go on with that thought, you’re correct actually adding to my point, if I am understanding you correctly: God, though He doesn’t mean for us to be born with physical defects, often uses those weaknesses as a means of grace to better show the beauty of His design. So for a life that already exists within an embryo, even a defective one, we cannot necessarily say that it would be grace to terminate it, so we cannot assume it is God’s grace extended in those situations and should not use that as a basis for justifying abortion when defects are detected in a fetus.

My point about the defective embryos that cause the body to terminate the pregnancy is that perhaps there was not life there to begin with. I don’t know the science (if I remember correctly, that is more your realm and I’m not great with science :slight_smile: ), but it seems to me that a defect in the embryo could possibly cause there to be no life there at all, and so it may be that it was never a potential child to begin with.

I can’t speak for people in other nations. I know in our own nation, here in the US, since we do have people who will help and we do have health insurance and other ways we can handle these situations, then we should not allow abortion. I can only speak to where I am living, and I apologize if the way I went about writing was insensitive to where you are. I whole-heartedly empathize with what you are saying; I hear you and your heart regarding women in other countries, and, yes, those are different situations all together. And, no, I would not call women in those nations murderers, and though in our own nation, I do see the act of abortion as murder, I would not label the women who get abortions as murderers, either. They end up going through enough, and most people, when they are participating in something like that, do not realize what they are doing at a deeper level until they experience the pain of emotional and mental struggle afterwards. To label them as murderers is harsh and unforgiving and, I think, lacks compassion and the witness we should be of God’s love. And, yes, we should always point people to Jesus, as he can ultimately help them better than we ever could.

I agree that God does handle things uniquely with each individual, but it is important to understand that God doesn’t change His character or what He has set forth as being sacred. He considers every life sacred, and acts in accordance with that. Do I believe there will be forgiveness when people turn to God in pain afterwards? Of course! And of course He understands what they are going through better than we ever could. But He would never approve of people ending lives, whether in the womb or out, because of situation; He doesn’t contradict Himself or change His mind on what He has declared to be right and wrong. He may decide to take those lives after they’ve been born, and perhaps that is an act of grace, as you’ve suggested it may be with the embryos. I always remember that God sees life differently than we do. For us, death seems like an end. But for God, death is a transition from this earthly life to the next for those who believe and for children who die before having the chance to hear about Jesus or make a decision.

Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you in anything here. I am trying to read carefully and respond accordingly and appreciate your responses. Thank you for your heart and compassion and providing your view from living in another part of the world. It does help with perspective when talking about something like abortion when looking at the rest of the world and not just the US. Again, apologies if I came across insensitively the first time.

Your Sister in Christ,

Lindsay

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(Sara Isaac) #17

About the syndrome I mentioned, what you are saying is absolutely correct. But in the case in mind, not going to elaborate much on it now, it’s quite odd because after a certain gene mutation takes place they either live or die, both who make it and those who don’t carry the same degree of aberrancy. It was truly puzzling when I came across it. There was just no explanation why some make it and some don’t.

That’s just beautiful! I read a novel a year ago by Jodi Picoult about a child born with osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) and the novel is based on many true stories actually. And I just marveled about that character, how exceedingly smart, loving and caring she was. I believe that any mother going through that she and her child would be endorsed with abundant favors from above. We might say in agony sometimes that it’s not fair. But God has his ways in tipping the balances in amazaing ways.

Not at all. We, as children of God on earth, indeed should be voice of those who have no voice, in that case the unborn individuals.
God bless!

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(Lindsay Brandt) #18

Hello, @saraisaac.

On this we agree. There is a difference between saying, “All of God’s truth is contained in the Bible” and “There is truth God has revealed to us in the Bible we can be sure of and do not have to wonder about.” I said the latter.

This is incorrect. We did not have to have the rest of the Bible to know why God struck Uzzah dead. God had already clearly commanded people not to touch the ark or they would die. Nor did we have to know the rest of the Bible to understand why God raised the widow’s son. The two situations you bring up are not two situations on the same command/absolute precept God had lain down. God did not raise the widow’s son after he had touched the ark or done something wrong. These two situations are based on entirely two different precepts. The first is based on the fact that God gave the command, and going against God’s command is sin which deserves punishment. Unlike the first, in the second, Jesus did not raise the man to life because he had given a command and he didn’t obey it, so this comparison is not the same as what we are talking about in comparing different situations based upon the one and the same precept “you shall not murder” and that every human life is sacred. The second, which can be found in the gospel of Luke, 7:11-17, shows Jesus has the authority to restore life, showing he is himself the life and, therefore, God.

So, can I get some clarification? Again, in writing, it is easy sometimes to misunderstand, so I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. Your entire argument is summed up in: God’s truth is absolute, but we cannot absolutely understand truth so we should not make decisions about right and wrong because we cannot absolutely understand any of the right and wrong God has clearly outlined in His Word for different situations? Is this correct?

(C Rhodes) #19

I think your Uncle raises a valid consideration. Do the rights of a female person preempt the rights of the female or male fetus in the womb?

To my thinking the failures lies in our assumptions of values, acceptable, or unacceptable. Our limited preceptions, our unreliable feelings that influence our laws, so, our communal and social righteousness tends to follow those considerations. Which can make us arogant in deciding that GOD’s Word takes its clues from our perspective. Therefore we feel justified in deciding when it applies, how it applies, to whom it applies. Perhaps in our limitations that mind set is unavoidable. but knowing we are so faulty, so limited, why wouldn’t we ask GOD each time?

We serve the only wise GOD unlimited in His ability, unceasing in His wisdom. That casts all of our living within that illumination. I know what the doctors may say. I know what our laws condemn. But we know what GOD’s Word says. So, abortion upon demand without ramification should not be, nor in the summation of such experiences is possible.

I’m thinking each exception to GOD’s way is an immediate and indivdual call to prayer for the answer. I would not make a blanket call even if it meant death. I am not comfortable making that call because if GOD can save a woman’s life via abortion, why isn’t GOD able to save a woman’s life and her child without abortion. Perhaps our comfort robs us of the opportunity to see our impossible made possible.

(Kevin Priger) #20

I thank God every day that my mother chose to put me up for adoption rather than ‘choose’ the other option. I was told, by my adoptive parents, from the time I could understand, that I was adopted. God had an amazing life in store for me and He planned for all this. I hope I can be a testament to the blessings of adoption.

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