Are you be able to use science to reaznably prove god

Atheism gives Christians the burden of proof about God, Would you be able to provide sufficient evidence, to defend you case for God?.

Alternatively, Could you pose in them the burden of proof, by ask the Atheist, for the source of Creation, other the his nothing God?

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Hi Gerano,

I’m interested in your statement “ Atheism gives Christians the burden of proof about God”. Why must only Christians give proof?

You could also ask an atheist: How do you know your reason and rationality can be relied upon?

Here is a quote from Lennox to have a think about regarding rationality and reason:

Sometimes, when in conversation with my fellow scientists, I ask them “What do you do science with?”

“My mind,” say some, and others, who hold the view that the mind is the brain, say, “My brain”.
“Tell me about your brain? How does it come to exist?”
“By means of natural, mindless, unguided processes.”
“Why, then, do you trust it?” I ask. “If you thought that your computer was the end product of mindless unguided processes, would you trust it?”
“Not in a million years,” comes the reply.
“You clearly have a problem then.”

After a pregnant pause they sometimes ask me where I got this argument—they find the answer rather surprising: Charles Darwin. He wrote: “…with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy.7

Taking the obvious logic of this statement further, Physicist John Polkinghorne says that if you reduce mental events to physics and chemistry you destroy meaning. How?
For thought is replaced by electrochemical neural events. Two such events cannot confront each other in rational discourse. They are neither right nor wrong—they simply happen. The world of rational discourse disappears into the absurd chatter of firing synapses. Quite frankly that can’t be right and none of us believe it to be so.

Polkinghorne is a Christian, but some well-known atheists see the problem as well.

John Gray writes: “Modern humanism is the faith that through science humankind can know the truth—and so be free. But if Darwin’s theory of natural selection is true this is impossible. The human mind serves evolutionary success, not truth”.9

Another leading philosopher, Thomas Nagel, thinks in the same way. He has written a book, Mind and Cosmos , with the provocative subtitle Why the Neo-Darwinian View of the World is Almost Certainly False. Nagel is a strong atheist who says with some honesty, “I don’t want there to be a God”. And yet he writes: “But if the mental is not itself merely physical, it cannot be fully explained by physical science. Evolutionary naturalism implies that we shouldn’t take any of our convictions seriously, including the scientific world picture on which evolutionary naturalism itself depends.”
(from https://www.solas-cpc.org/john-lennox-busts-a-myth-about-religion-faith-and-science/)

In the chapter 3 of the book ‘Can science explain everything’; “Mythbusters I: Religion depends on faith but science doesn’t”, Lennox writes

C.S. Lewis argues this point saying that “unless human reasoning is valid no science can be true.” If ultimate reality is not material, not to take this into account in our context is to neglect the most important fact of all. Yet the supernatural dimension has not only been forgotten, it has been ruled out of court by many. Lewis observes: The Naturalists have been engaged in thinking about Nature. They have not attended to the fact that they were thinking. The moment one attends to this it is obvious that one’s own thinking cannot be merely a natural event, and therefore something other than Nature exists.[36] Not only does science fail to rule out the supernatural—the very doing of science or any other rational activity rules it in. The Bible gives us a reason for trusting reason. Atheism does not. This is the exact opposite of what many people think.

Lennox, John. Can Science Explain Everything? . The Good Book Company. Kindle Edition.

The atheistic worldview of only matter/energy undermines the reason and rationality it relies upon.

Origins
The burden of proof is on anyone who makes a positive claim. All worldviews must explain origins and the question “Why is there something rather than nothing?”.

Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking both suggest a self creating universe; which is as John Lennox points out logically incoherent.

Take, for instance, Hawking’s statement quoted above: “Because there is a law of gravity the universe can and will create itself from nothing.” Clearly, he assumes that gravity (or perhaps only the law of gravity?) exists. That is not nothing. So the universe is not created from nothing.

Worse still, the statement “the universe can and will create itself from nothing” is self-contradictory. If I say, “X creates Y,” this presupposes the existence of X in the first place in order to bring Y into existence. If I say “X creates X,” I presuppose the existence of X in order to account for the existence of X. To presuppose the existence of the universe to account for its existence is logically incoherent.
From this article https://www.rzim.org/read/just-thinking-magazine/stephen-hawking-and-god

The cosmological argument on origins is explained by William Lane Craig

Are you thinking this through for yourself or are you having a discussion with a friend of yours in this area?

God bless. :slight_smile:

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Hello Matthew.
I am so joyful to find someone like you, with whom I can rationally explore this very important topic.
Unfortunately, Christianity today has become so caught up, in the text of the Bible, unable to answer questions demanding “apologia”, to defend what it has being entrusted to New Born, human beings.

I could spend many hours, as I have done already with many people, asking question about the reality of our Father The Eternal Creator, to explain why I have Conviction and Certainty that The God I call Father, is the only possibility, for everything to exist, an Jesus Christ was a human Historical being and Creator, who promised to take us to the place where he is preparing for us, his new born family. (Jon 14:1-5)
I have Asked many atheist, to provide me with a reasonable explanation about Their god Nothing, but they answer that " nothing is not existing," Therefore, is none person in scientism, able to provide a proof of “nothing creating something”, You should try it, you may be able to find someone.
By the way I am very inquisitive to follow John Lennox, Raby, Frank Turek and many others that enjoy debates with Dawkings’ like people. I am also looking here in Sidney Australia, for Genuine followers of Jesus Christ, capable of delivering the Eternal Gospel, to an audience of today’s reality. Bendicones.

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I have found an RZIM friend that I may be able to meet soon, and together see a Pastor who give me a question that was not answered by some RZIM blokes last weekend talking in a Pentecostal Church.

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Dear sir,

You have a point!

However, God can not be disproven, and therein is the conundrum for athism. And science keeps proving God. But really the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of disbelievers to show what they could not see while blind.

We have the Holy Spirit to witness.

Romans 8:16 ’ The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,’

Blessigs,
~Sanah~

Hello hermana Sanah.

I fill so much joy, when I find someone like you, defending the glorious name our God our Father.

Atheist are unable to prove, that their god nothing, could create or become the cause of something, Unfortunately the problem is rather, Christianity that today are so locked up in the text of the Bible, rather than understanding the mind of his a-temporal Inspirational source.

The Holy Spirit is the only one working, in the mind of Christians like us, willing to apply the words addressed to an audience of more than 2,000 years ago, but applied to today’s reality.

Jesus Christ the Human son of God, could not mention then, about artificial intelligence, quantum physics, electromagnetism, gravity, nuclear attraction combustion engine, digital systems, etc, etc, etc

That is the reality of today. we need to take into account, to talk to rational people from today.

Shore Faith is a consequence of Certainty and conviction, by accepting rationally that God is the only possibility of the existence of all these things. Therefore, Faith has always being a total conviction of his fellowship with all the famous people in the Bible. Today is no different

Please ask me question if you dare, That will help learning more.

Bendicones.

Thank you very much.

Please read my answer to your comment. Hope you enjoy it

Bendicones.

Kind Regards

Genaro Regalado

well Quatum physicis is a happy place for me in Christ. I hope you are just as happy.
Blessings,
~Sanah~

Hello Sanah.
Thank you very much, for your lines.

To me looks like you can explain more, about the way Quantum Physics, makes yo happy in Christ.

I would like to explore more about the way God may have started the formation of everything.

Because to me without a conviction, that everything that we can see and touch, could not have existed without Our God, our Father, this is reality.

Can you comment or ask some questions. Bendicines.

Hello Sanah.

How much you understand Quantum Physics?

I would like to explore this issue with you, that is if you could enjoy it.

Kind Regards

Genaro Regalado

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Hi Mr. Genarito,

I love to talk about science and quatum physics.

It’s a partical ! No it’s a wave… It’s a particle! No wait it’s a wave! Kinda like … I’m a tepee I’m a wig wom! ( Relax! You’re two tents! ( too tense, ). If you are a geek like me you will love puns for sure!

I am not able to mathmatically enjoy a lot anymore.It is related to losing quite a bit of that area in my brain these last few years to bleeds and seizures. However, the verbal side is still very much intact and I can pull for there easily.

The more science realizes the macrocosim and microcosim are both timeless, our Father’s reality becomes greater in eternity in our own tiny minds. Psalms 147:4 ’ He determains the number of stars; He calls each by name. ’

I praise my Father ! Psalm 19: 1 'The heavens declare the glory of God; the sky proclaim the work of his hands. ’

I love to talk about my Lord in all aspects Mr. Genarito !

Blessings,
~Sanah~

Hello Sanah.

I also love to talk ala the time about our God, There is not absolute doubt in my mind, That who created all things, had to be Eternal, Timeless. Immaterial and Powerful.

Everything physical or metaphysical, can only exist by a cause. and that is our God, who we have fellowship, learn and love today.

I will be in touch again later.