Ask Abdu Murray (September 2-6, 2019)

Friends! (@Interested_In_Ask_RZIM, @Interested_in_Islam)

I am very excited to announce that @Abdu_Murray will be back on Connect this coming week to take a turn in the Q&A hot seat! As you can see in his official biography below, Abdu is no stranger to thinking deeply and making big decisions in the face of immense pressure. Whenever I listen to him, I am struck by not just the comprehensive clarity of his communication, but by the pastoral way he seeks to connect with the questioners in the audience.

Whether you are new to this forum or a regular contributor, I would encourage you to seize this opportunity to engage with him! :slight_smile:

And if you have read and wish to read Abdu’s latest book, Saving Truth, we invite you to have a listen to @Shawn_Hart and @Ivy_Tyson’s podcast, ‘Cover to Cover’ and then join in on community book discussion found here.

Also, for additional fun, you can check out his Q&A from earlier this year here.

Abdu’s RZIM bio

Abdu Murray is a speaker and Senior Vice President with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries and the author of three books, including his latest, Saving Truth: Finding Meaning and Clarity in a Post-Truth World . For most of his life, Abdu was a proud Muslim who studied the Qur’an and Islam. After a nine-year investigation into the historical, philosophical, and scientific underpinnings of the major world religions and views, Abdu discovered that the historic Christian faith can answer the questions of the mind and the longings of the heart.

Abdu has spoken to diverse international audiences and has participated in debates and dialogues across the globe. He has appeared as a guest on numerous radio and television programs all over the world and he hosts the upcoming new RZIM podcast, The Defense Rests.

Abdu holds a BA in psychology from the University of Michigan and earned his Juris Doctor from the University of Michigan Law School. As an attorney, Abdu was named several times in Best Lawyers in America and Michigan Super Lawyer .

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Thanks for this @KMac! I can’t agree more with you about Abdu. The way he brings together such clear thinking with a huge heart for the person is such a gift. That really stuck out to us as we worked through Saving Truth on the podcast.

It is great to hear people will have him answering questions this week.

Shawn

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Hello Abdu,

Thank you, for your participation and engagement with God’s call in your life.
I loved your book.

My question is: What practices would you recommend…to help me converse with my Muslim daughter? (Without triggering off the rhetoric and recital of Islamic dogma.) ( I have no doubt, she sees my faith in a similar light.)

For instance, she believes Ishmael was the son whom Issac was going to offer to God…

(All her quotes from the Quran etc. come across to me as being a broad plagiarizing (or in modern terms a rebranding) of the old and new testaments.)

(She grew up within Christianity, went to university…became an atheist, then, went to Palestine, where she met and married a Muslim man. She converted to Islam and is now a practising Muslim. They have 3 young children who are attending Muslim school on the weekends.)

I love my daughter and her family very much. My hearts desire is for her and her family to come to Jesus. That being said, given the tenets of Islam…this seems pretty much impossible.

One good thing about her understanding of Islam. She works at honouring and respecting her parents. Even though our faiths are diametrically opposed. Again, to me, a rip off from the 10 commandments… “Honour your father and mother.”

Thank you for whatever help and advice you can give me.

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Thanks @KMac for inviting back @Abdu_Murray . And beautifully writing up about his winsome pastoral way of dealing with questioners. I totally agree about that.

Hi Abdu,

It was a wonderful opportunity for me to chat with you during RZIM Asia Founders in Hong Kong. In essence, you told me it is precisely because you love your family too much not to be rooted in the truth and share it with them. Such boldness and sincere love you demonstrated to me that weekend.

Since I came back to Indonesia from my studies 15 years ago, I have been reaching out to Muslims, by sowing seeds of His word and love, the few times I had the privilege to discuss extensively about the Quran and Jesus/Bible, I extended the invitation for them to accept our Savior at the end. Many politely considered it but came back more adamant than ever. They “reasoned” back with the Bible may be true, but Islam is beautiful to me and my family. I semi-expected this from watching your testimony and Nabeel’s that it wasn’t an easy decision due to the fear of family/community persecution for apostates.

So my question is, is there anything more we could do beyond this? The next time we have a quality moment to converse with Muslims, is there a more effective way to engage with them? I’m not trying to convert them overnight of course, but something to at least keep the subtle fire steadily lit while being nudged to go in the right direction.

Thanks Abdu in advance, look forward to your response. Thx Kathleen for this opportunity.

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Abdu,
Thank you for your graciousness in considering and responding to the varied questions of many different people searching for truth. When you give a lecture, I come away with much clarity on subjects that were murky to me previous to your biblical explanations.

I have been hoping you would be available again on RZIM connect, so I could share this question that is so emotionally poignant.

One of my girlfriend’s husband is a pastor of a different denomination than myself and a few yrs. ago I was in one of his services, when he made statements I strongly disagreed with. His use of the scriptures appeared theologically correct, but in my heart, I could not reconcile them as such. The question he wove into his sermon about how we create a god to satisfy our imagination was this…

What happens to babies when they die?

As I sat there in the pew, I’m thinking of every potentially shattered woman in the congregation that would have experienced a miscarriage, abortion or the death of a child outside of the womb.

The pastor asserts that b/c we define God a certain way and in a certain light, of His goodness, and love, that we tend to make things up and we put statements out there about this subject that are not true. He gave an example of this statement… “You know there is an age of accountability and until they have the moral conscience to choose between right and wrong, they are innocent. Problem,” he shouts.

"Based on Romans 3:10, “there are none righteous, no not one”, and David’s statement in Psalm 51:5 “Behold I was shaped in iniquity: and in sin did my mother conceive me.” He stated, “if babies are innocent when they are born and if they die innocent, which is another theological problem, that means there is another way to heaven outside of Jesus Christ.” The pastor ended up saying, “he did not know what happens to babies, but his trust was in God to do what was best and what is right.”

I work for a faith-based women’s pregnancy center, and have counseled hundreds of women. I have not once eluded to the fragmented pieces of these women’s hearts, that their children were anywhere but in God’s arms.
I believe God receives these babies back to Himself and have always believed they would be in heaven. But what do I biblically stand on for this assertion?

I am not asking for you to validate my belief, however, I am asking for you to speak biblically to this weighty subject with clarity, honesty and the integrity I have come to value in your responses.

Incredibly Grateful,

Ro Spaulding

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Hello Abdu;
I very much appreciate and value your help in understanding the mindset of followers of Mohammad.
In discussion with some Muslims with whom I worked while in their country(ies) I have never been able to understand their refusal to accept that One could bear the penalty of sin for another, in light of the following:
Islamic doctrine says that it is impossible for Christ to have died for the sins of others, all persons must bear their own judgment and punishment. They deny that there is any propitiation (expiatory work accomplished at /on the cross) available for mankind. The denial of Christ’s sacrificial death destroys the essential part that defines Christianity. And yet there seems to be plenty of examples that are claimed for the value of life given or the transfer of guilt from one party to another that is of supreme benefit to the undeserving. How do Islamic teachers/debaters explain away their main premise for denying Christ died as representative man ‘in due time’ when judgment must fall? And the value of that death?

Muslim Book 37

6665 - Abu Musa’ reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

6666 - Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him).

6668 - Abu Burda reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to 'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him)? I said: Yes.

Dawud Book 14

2516 - Narrated AbudDarda’: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The intercession of a martyr will be accepted for seventy members of his family.
(this means that there is a real eternal benefit to families that have sons and daughters who are martyred in jihad–my comment)

110 Ahadith Qudsi:

Narrated Abu Musa: Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians; then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy. This Hadith is sound and mentioned in Mustadrak of Hakim. ( 110 Ahadith Qudsi , trans.: Syed Masood-ul-Hasan, pp. 20-21.)


I have had quite a few discussions with staff while based in Khartoum on this topic. When I raised the point that Christianity was based on and was dependent on Christ paying the price for our sin, and without that fact Christianity was without grounds for existence, that was incomprehensible to them. I know that the vast majority are quite ignorant of what they really ‘believe’. How do we best handle this most important truth with them?
Thanks
Gary

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Hi Abdu,
Thankyou so much to yourself and the whole RZIM team - this ministry is very much needed in todays society.

My wife and I have been trying to share the Gospel with Mormon missionaries that come to the door. We are now on our third set, two young ladies, previously having two sets of young men, within the last year. It does feel a little discouraging that they get cycled out by their leadership before you have chance to get much traction.

I’ve watched and read some of Jeff Durbin’s material on youtube (Questions for mormon missionaries), and have been trying to do as he suggested and stick to ‘Who is God’, ‘Who is Jesus’, and ‘What is the Gospel’ using the KJV (as they read this also).

I think there is a logical flaw in their understanding of Origins; because they believe that ‘God’ - they refer to him as Heavenly Father, is a man that has achieved godhood and also had a father. The logical flaw is we know that the universe also had a beginning. The question of ‘How did the universe come into existence’ cannot be answered by a series of gods in the past that had fathers etc (the two young ladies yesterday were not aware that Mormon doctrine teaches that God is an elevated man)

I already was aware their doctrine of Jesus and Satan being spiritual brothers, but yesterday learnt a little more.
They believe that everyone exists in a pre-mortal state (including Jesus and Satan) and are spiritual decendants of God the Father. They then make a choice (in the pre-mortal state) as to whether they want to come to earth and be born. They then pass through this ‘veil of forgetfulness’ - which is why they can’t remember any of this ‘pre-mortal’ state.

I asked them ‘What would be the motivation in the premortal state to choose to come to earth, given the risks of the possibility of not reaching one of their three heavens?’ (celestial kingdom, terrestrial kingdom, and telestial kingdoms and outer darkness is the 4 eternal states of Mormon doctrine).

Their response was ‘in the pre-mortal state, their choices were not one of right and wrong but they were in some sort of formless or not yet completed state and it was not a choice of right and wrong’. Having thought about it today a little more; it appears that (according to them) Jesus & Satan was also in this so called ‘pre-mortal state’ and made the choice to come to earth (or not in Satan’s case).

It does feel as if there is just much wrong doctrine, it’s a case of where do you start. They are very caring people, and the young missionaries generally have all grown up in the church and know nothing else (are generally in their 20s). It’s very hard sometimes to hold back and be gentle and ask questions and not throw the kitchen sink at them (so to speak). I do remember Ravi saying that a cult basically is a compromise of Who Jesus is or what he has done.

I plan to trying to just show them the ‘Romans Road’ verses on our next visit, to gently show that a works based salvation is not Biblical. The other thing I say is ‘what do you do with the apparent contradictions between the King James Version and the Book of Mormon’ - which takes authority.

I watched Ravi speak at the Mormon tabernacle on youtube a year or so ago when we had the first two young men visiting us (I wasn’t looking for answers then on how to reach Mormons, I was just interested in what Ravi had to say; I sent a link of this video to the first set of Mormon missionaries and they are not allowed to watch any youtube whilst on mission service. The young Mormon missionary thanked me for the resource and said he would give it to his field leader for looking at). I generally try and text message them the Gospel (with Bible references) towards the end of their time to move on - as they communicate via text message.

Have you had much dealing with cults in your ministry - or more specifically what is the key to reaching Mormons? Are reaching out to cults more difficult because it’s truth mixed with error?

Sorry this is a little long - it’s still fresh in my mind from yesterday. A bit of a debrief I guess. thanks for reading - and thanks to all the RZIM team for this ministry. :slight_smile:

Kind regards
Matt

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Hi Abdu,

Thank you so much for your testimoney and ministry. I have found it encouraging and helpful. I have two questions if that’s OK? (That’s not one of them! :slight_smile:).
I have worked with Muslim refugees. I spent a lot of time with one young man from Sudan and we would often talk about the Bible. On the last day that I knew I would see him I asked him what he thought about Jesus after all our conversations. He said the following: “I can accept that Jesus is the son of God. After all, I believe in the virgin birth; however, I cannot believe he is God.” I have never heard a Muslim go as far as to call Jesus the Son of God. Would this be an acceptable conclusion within Islam, and how could I have helped my friend take another step towards the deity of Christ?

My second question (or is it really my third?). I was reading an English translation of the Koran and the first words in Surah 2 are the letters, Alif, Lam, Min. Do you know what is the significance of these letters at the start?

Thanks & blessings.

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Hey there Abdu,

What with the recent two prominent Christians losing their faith which went viral across all media platforms, some Muslims attack Jesus’ words that nobody can snatch them out of my father’s hand. They also doubt the “once saved, always saved” idea.

How to respond to Muslims?

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Hi Abdu,
Are there three resurrections? One being at the Rapture, another of those who rejected Christ and then those who are saved during the Tribulation and Millennium? Perhaps the “new heaven and new earth” there will be no need for a third resurrection. Thanks, Dave

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Hello Billie,

Thanks so much for your question. You may be able to look elsewhere in previous “Ask Abdu” sessions here on connect for my responses to questions on the general approaches to Muslims. They may be of some help to you.

Your question seems a bit more geared to reaching a Muslim family member, which can be a bit trickier given the relational dynamics. I’ve often said that one of the best inroads to great conversations about Jesus is relationship. Ironically, relationships can also be the greatest barriers to meaningful conversations. In parent-child interactions, there is sometimes a rebelliousness or something milder like a fear of being told “I told you so” or “I knew you’d come around” that shuts the ears and hearts of sons and daughters. I have no way of knowing if that’s happening with your situation, but it is something to be aware of as a relational undercurrent.

Another interpersonal issue is the cost of coming to Christ. With your daughter’s current stage of life, it would be very difficult to give her life to Jesus not only because of Islamic prohibitions, but also because it would cause strife in her marital and parental relationships. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t share, it just means that she and her family may be a lot more resistant to logic, facts, and the like.

As well, it seems to me like she her romantic feelings for her husband may have contributed to her becoming a Muslim. Now, it’s important that we not commit a logical fallacy here. Just because she may have become a Muslim due to her romantic feelings doesn’t necessarily mean that Islam is false. But it is important to consider those motivations for becoming a Muslim because they can easily contribute to a person staying a Muslim .

Now to the substance of your question. You are quite right that Islam seems to borrow heavily from (and in some instances outright copy) the OT. A friend of mine, Dr. Mark Durie, has recently published a very good (but very academic) book on this entitled “The Qur’an and its Biblical Reflexes.” You can find it here if you’re interested. Now, when you point this out, she may respond by saying, “Of course, Islam is the progressive revelation of God, bringing us back to the true monotheism of Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, all of whom obeyed the law as originally revealed.” That’s where you can actually find something that the Qur’an borrows that inadvertently points to Jesus.

Your daughter and her family likely celebrated the Muslim holiday of Al-Adha. This holiday commemorates Abraham’s obedience to God in being willing got sacrifice his son at God’s command. This story is found in Sura 37:100-107. What is interesting is a detail at the end. When God stops Abraham from killing his son, the Qur’an mentions that Abraham’s son is “ransomed with a momentous sacrifice” (v. 107). This obviously borrows from the biblical account in Genesis 22, in which Abraham’s son (who it is isn’t important for the discussion) is replaced by a ram caught in a thicket. The question for Muslims is this - why? Why does Abraham’s son need to be ransomed at all? Why didn’t Abraham sacrifice one of his one animals in his son’s place? The Qur’an doesn’t fill in the details to give us a reason. But the Bible does. When his son asked him where the sacrifice was going to come from, Abraham told him “God will provide.” This is a prophecy of the ultimate sacrifice that God would provide in his Son. You see, the Qur’an borrowed “too much” from the Bible and at least implicitly acknowledged that someone as righteous as Abraham’s son still needs to be ransomed with a sacrifice. But Islam doesn’t provide any such ultimate ransom. But the Bible tells us that God provided through his son.

I pray that an opportunity arises for you to ask her what Al-Adha is all about so that you can point some of this out to her. May the Holy Spirit guide you!

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Hi Keith,

I’m thrilled that you’re so intentionally witnessing to the Muslims God brings your way. I’ll afford you a modicum of the great grace I’ve been afforded and proceed as if you’ve only asked 2 questions!

First, that he even said that Jesus could be God’s Son is remarkable, as most Muslims would consider even the idea to be monstrous (in fact, the Qur’an specifically calls the idea monstrous (Sura 19:88-92). But I wouldn’t go there with him, as it might scare him away from any progress he’s making. What I might say, therefore, is this: Doesn’t someone’s “offspring” share the same nature as the parent? IN other words, humans have human offspring, not giraffes, while birds have bird offspring, and the like. The offspring always shares the same nature as the parent. Thus, if Jesus is God’s Son, he would share the same nature as God - divine being.

But Jesus isn’t God just because of the virgin birth. That may be a sign, but it isn’t sufficient to prove his divinity. The reason I believe Jesus is God is because he said he is God, died on a cross, and then rose again to prove he was right. May I suggest getting my book Grand Central Question in which I discuss the theological, philosophical, and biblical foundations for the divinity of Jesus. The fact that he’s even willing to concede that Jesus is God’s son is a huge step!

As for your second question, unfortunately, I don’t have any answer for what those letters mean. The reason I don’t have an answer is because no one does. Islamic scholars only have theories and none of them enjoys anything like a consensus of opinion. They could be scribal errors, notations, or something else.

I hope this answer helps, Keith!

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Hi Roy,

It was so good to spend some time chatting at Asia Founders and I hope to see you again soon!

When someone makes a comment like “Islam is beautiful,” this opens up an opportunity for you to see what they mean and whether “beauty” is a test for truth. [CAVEAT: I actually do believe that the existence of beauty as a part of reality can point to God’s existence]. For example, if you asked them, “What’s beautiful about it?” You might find that they really haven’t thought it through. Or maybe they have and now you have more information about their beliefs than you did before! Either way, you make progress.

Now, if what they say is inherently subjective, you can show them that beauty is often a subjective thing, which can’t possibly determine what is objectively true. I happen to think that Handel’s Messiah is an incomparably beautiful musical piece, but that doesn’t mean that it came from God. Beauty is a test many Muslims employ to show that Islam is somehow true or from God. But that test simply doesn’t work.

Now, having said all that, the pursuit of beauty does provide us with an opportunity to share the gospel. In my book, Grand Central Question, I show how Muslims want to believe that God is the greatest possible being (which is why they say “Allahu Akbar”, meaning “God is greater”). They often reject the ideas of the Trinity, incarnation of God in Christ, and the cross because Muslims believe these ideas insult God’s greatness. But the beautiful thing is that they actually demonstrate his greatness. I go into much more detail in the book, but here’s an example. If God is the greatest possible being (Muslims and Christians agree that he is), then he would naturally express the greatest possible ethic (which is love) in the greatest possible way (which is self-sacrifice). Even humans can do that. If God is greater than humans (and he is), then he would express love even better than we would. He would sacrifice not just for those who love him but for those who hate him. That’s exactly what Romans 5:8 says. That’s a glorious (and beautiful) affirmation of God’s greatness. What so many Muslims seek is found in the gospel message and nowhere else.

I hope this helps!

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Thank you, Abdu, for your thoughtful and kind response.

Yes, I understand the challenges to my daughter, to her marriage and her children…if she were to come to Jesus.

It would be wonderful if her spouse came to Jesus first. Then, there would be less tension and conflict over any change in faith.

Generally, I don’t attempt to challenge her beliefs, or try to “convert” her. I believe the relationship is important with each one in their family.
Her children are lovely and are attached in a healthy way to us as grandparents.

Your suggestion is helpful. I will think this through and look for God to open a natural opportunity to speak of Abraham’s sacrifice and the miraculous provision.

The family dynamics are complicated.

God is good. My hope and prayer is for her salvation.
I may not live to see it, but, while I live, I will petition the throne of grace for her and her family to be redeemed.

The book you mentioned is far too expensive, so, I will have seek other means for a deeper understanding.

Thank you, again.

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Hi Abdu,

I can’t wait to read your upcoming book, Seeing Jesus from the East. I’ve been looking for resources to understand the culture of Jesus because a friend of mine is asking questions about it. Are there any resources you’d recommend I start with now as I wait for your book to be released?

Jen

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Thank you for such a beautiful response to challenge their perception of beauty in Islam and compared to the grander things of the Bible.

I’ve never thought to go down that path. I thought they just shot logic dead with that statement, showing me they are not in pursuit of truth after all. Lesson learnt, thanks for opening up this avenue.

Thanks again for taking time to give this wise insight.

Blessings

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Thanks Abdu, this does help. And thank you for the ‘modicum of grace…’ :slightly_smiling_face:

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Hi Gary,

Thanks for your question. Very thorough and well thought out!

I think you’re right that Muslims tend to believe that there can be no propitiation for sins, yet Islamic sources, most plentiful in ahadith, tend to show that there is some kind of substitutionary sacrifice. I think it’s wise to point out those sources because it exposes either (a) a contradiction within Islam; or (b) the possibility that someone can stand in another’s place when it comes to judgment.

The rub for a Muslim will be that the Qur’an specifically says that when it comes to judgment for sin, “every should draw the meed for its acts on none but itself: No bearer of burdens can bear the burdens of another” (Sura 6:164; see also Sura 17:15). Thus, it seems like there is no substitutionary atonement or intercession for one’s sins. But the ahadith seem to be in conflict with that.

But notice what the Qur’an actually says: “No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another.” This is where Jesus comes in as one who can take the penalty of sin as our substitute. Jesus, being perfect and sinless, does not bear any burdens of his own. Thus, he can bear our burdens for us. He has no debt to pay and so can pay our debt. And so I would ask a Muslim - given what the hadith say about payment for sins being visited upon Jews and Christians, it seems possible that people can bear other people’s sins. But the Qur’an seems to contradict that. Wouldn’t it seem more in keeping with God’s goodness and his divine consistency that he would strive to find a way to save everyone by allowing a perfect being–God the Son–to bear our burdens for us? That is the very heart of the gospel. How fascinating that the biblical doctrine of substitutionary atonement not only solves the Islamic contradiction, but also provides hope for our salvation!

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Hi Jennifer,

Ravi and I are very excited for its publication too (stay tuned for its release in April 2020).

Some good places to start would be Ken Bailey’s classic work, “Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes”. I also recommend Lois Tverberg’s “Reading the Bible with Rabbi Jesus.” A great resource on interpreting the Scriptures in light of their Middle Eastern context is Richard’s and O’Brien’s “Misreading Scripture Through Western Eyes.” Those are good places to start!

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Hi Abdu. I spend a fair amount of time thinking about how we can reach the next generation with the gospel. You’ve been part of RZIM’s college outreach, right? What’s the secret sauce? I’m currently involved with a campus ministry, and soon to be involved with my church’s young adults ministry. I think we’ve done discipleship fairly well, but my hope has been that evangelism would follow, flowing naturally from a strong group of young Christians. This has not been the case.

My question has two parts. First, what do you think are the greatest barriers to belief of our time? I’ve read Saving Truth. Post-truthers aside, I also find that some students are simply mis-educated and strongly believe the “science” or philosophies they’ve been taught. While God’s given me some gifts that I greatly appreciate, I can’t argue biology (as a former business student) with a biology major. Until last week I thought I could hold my own with philosophy, but I ended up talking with a philosophy major who drowned me in a sea of relativism and low-epistemology. I know, answer the questioner, not the question. It’s not easy.

So, secondly, given said barriers, how can we practically reach students with the power and simplicity of the gospel? I’ve learned a lot over the years, but I’m starting to wonder whether apologetics really is just for the experts. I know RZIM has a great impact at our universities and beyond. Personally, I haven’t had much success moving a conversation from secondary to primary issues.

Separately, I think we’re past the Billy Graham era. People don’t want to be sold anything, I know I certainly don’t. Does that leave us only with relational evangelism? I like the idea of missional communities… I really think the concept of church needs to change / is changing. Think Francis Chan, David Platt, Tampa Underground… I could go on all day but I’ve taken up enough space already!

I pray you can make some sense of my thoughts here. Looking forward to your new podcast, please make it compatible with Google Podcasts if you can!

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