Bachelette party

(Corey Alan Patterson) #1

Hello family! This question that I have, in my eyes, should obviously be an easy one for the Christian Community. Unfortunately even though it is an easy answer it seems more obvious in my generation that a lot of my generation doesn’t care about doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do through the perspective of God’s eyes.

A couple of days ago I had a friend talk to me about being in a life group. In this life group these leaders were talking about (or should I say glorifying) having strippers at their bachelor party. (why I think I’m so concerned with this is because these leaders are actually youth ministry leaders)

So my questions are going to be pretty deep and I want see all these questions for me but also for my friend.

What makes us a Christian? ( I know it’s not by my righteousness or my deeds that we become a Christian)

How should a Christian be acting, thinking, talking? (I know God commands us to be holy, and blameless, and not bitter and controlled by our lusts and pride but be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit; to act as though we were seated in Christ at the right hand of God)

In this situation and situations like this:
How should I do what Paul says in Galatians 6:1?

“If anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted”

What are some effects that could happen if we start our marriage off with a bachelor party that involves immoral activities?

Obviously knowing that relationship ties are very important and I can’t just go around trying to correct everybody; I also think it is very important to stand firm in the truth no matter what; to speak boldly. It seems like my generation is more worried about who they offend and keeping everyone happy rather then standing firm in the path of righteousness. I know that I have to be full of Truth and Grace and I hope to understand more on the ways to gently restore my brother and sister who is caught in a sin.

P.S. , I truly appreciate this ministry and I have been able to use what you all help me to understand and organized in my head to apply to situations like Halloween and Catholicism and I’m hoping to be able to use what you all give me for this situation to much love and respect. Furthermore, I know I can go to my Bible and find many Scripture verses on what it says about how we should be thinking, and acting, and talking, but, I asked this ministry because you all show me different viewpoints and maybe different tools to use or questions to ask to bring them ( and I) to the conclusions the Bible comes to about these topics without just throwing Scipture verses out at them. I greatly appreciate these techniques.

In Christ’s love,
Corey A. Patterson

(SeanO) #2

@Corey I remember you were having some concerns along these lines before (thread below). Before answering your question regarding how to engage this issue from a Church perspective, I would be curious to know if you have sought to address it through Church leadership. Have you raised this issue with the elders at your Church? Are they aware of it at this point? Church discipline is necessary in this type of situation, but I am assuming the elders would not agree with such behavior.

My short answer to your question about what Christianity is comes from Romans 6 - we have died to sin in Christ - how can we live in it any longer? We are a new creation.

Romans 6:1-4 - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

We Should Expect Christians to Bear Fruit

The Bible is clear that we should expect Christians to bear fruit. They may not be perfect, but their lives should be conformed to His image. Those who flaunt sin are not in Christ.

Luke 3:8 - Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

Matthew 7:15-20 - “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

2 Peter 2:18-19 - For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.

How to Bear Fruit

(Corey Alan Patterson) #3

No I do not believe the elders know about it. The person I heard it from is a close friend which is a very Godly woman and she told me how it bothered her greatly. Again, this is a life group and I believe I should first instruct her on how to communicate that it is wrong for them to be thinking, talking, and even acting like the world acts. I hope that she is bold but I know that she is very shy and I know that she really doesn’t like to cause any conflict seeing as these people are probably some of her only friends. So, this is why I’m asking how I should identify this specific problem and encourage her to say something even if it costs.

She is a very smart girl and knows the difference between truth and error and how a Christian should be walking and talking and acting like and how we should not think talk and act like; I know that she stands firm in her beliefs of why we do what we do as the people of God.

One of the things I would encourage her to do is to ask specific questions like : would the elders agree with you having a bachelor party that included a bunch of strippers? Would you be talking about these things if the senior pastor were sitting in this room? Things of that sort. Yes, I know that Jesus sat with Sinners but he did not involve Himself in their debauchery and wrong behaviors. Why are we, as children of God and parts of the body, including ourselves and things we should not be including ourselves in?

(SeanO) #4

@Corey I would exhort you to take this issue directly to the elders. Even if you do not know about these specific accusations, you know enough from living with them that they fall far short of the qualifications to be leaders in God’s Church. I would get in contact with leadership as soon as possible. My heart breaks for both these self-deceived leaders and for those underneath their leadership. I agree that someone should help these young men process why what they are doing is wrong. But I think that how that is done should be decided by the leaders in the Church.

Be bold brother - your Church leadership has a right to know about such behavior.

When We Truly Experience Grace

Was reminded of this hymn by John Newton. When we experience God’s grace, the things of this world lose their allure. We cannot love God and the world.

1 John 2:15-17 - Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

Since I have known the Saviour’s name,
And what for me he bore,
No more I toil for empty fame,
I thirst for gold no more.

Plac’d by his hand in this retreat,
I make his love my theme;
And see that all the world calls great,
Is but a waking dream.

Grace bid me live, and taught my tongue
To aim at notes divine;
And grace accepts my feeble song;
The glory, Lord, be thine!

(Corey Alan Patterson) #5

It’s actually a Woman’s Group

(SeanO) #6

@Corey I don’t quite understand the situation. There are men leading a women’s group? Is this group associated with a Church? What role do these guys play in the women’s group?

(Matt Western) #7

I’d simply ask these ‘youth group leaders’ would they be happy if Jesus Christ was in the room during a strip tease.

A very quiet question you could ask ‘Is a striptease, an objectification of a young lady who is someone else’s daughter or future wife or future mother, really treating her as a human being created in God’s image?’

Sorry if I’m direct but there’s something seriously wrong going on there.

Good way to ruin a marriage before it’s even started. The bride would always be questioning her husbands love for her alone, would start the marriage wondering if she was beautiful enough.
Why not just celebrate every special occasion or anniversary with a striptease.

Having said that pornography is no different. It’s extremely destructive on any current or possible future marriage relationships. :frowning:

We also need to remember what Jesus says to the self righteous Pharisees when they wanted to stone the women caught in adultery. ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone’.

But I agree with Sean, I’d be praying and talking to someone more senior in leadership regarding this issue.

(Corey Alan Patterson) #8

So sorry it would have been a bachelorette party

(Corey Alan Patterson) #9

Thanks for the instruction

(Corey Alan Patterson) #10

I will make sure that my information is correct before I go any further. I think I need to ask a little bit more questions so that I don’t go assuming something that might not be

(Corey Alan Patterson) #11

I found out that the group was with some leaders and with some lay people so it might not have been the leaders that were actually the ones that were glorifying wrong behaviors.

(Corey Alan Patterson) #12

If I do ever hear about any leaders doing such things I will take into consideration what you said SeanO " I would exhort you to take this issue directly to the elders. Even if you do not know about these specific accusations, you know enough from living with them that they fall far short of the qualifications to be leaders in God’s Church. "

(Matt Western) #13

That’s very wise. I assumed that it would be men having strippers. You did say in your post a bachelorette party, not a bachelor party. Oops. It’s still objectification of a human being made in Gods image.

Also, I wonder sometimes if people just joke about things to get attention when they’d never actually do it. Still, our jokes show where our hearts are.

I can only offer a mans perspective so perhaps a mature Christian lady might offer insight about younger ladies. I’m married and have one teenage daughter, but not for a moment do I think I understand ladies or how they think. :slight_smile:

You are right and do need to pick your battles though, probably going to leadership about a single instance of joking around would be an overreaction. An actual event where any sort of leaders in a church where there was a striptease and it wasn’t just hearsay would be a concern.

I hope this is useful to do some further reading should you have to make some tough decisions in the future. Basically you start just talking privately to a person about your concerns, then involve deacons/elders again in a quiet manner.

(Corey Alan Patterson) #14

Matthew, thank you so much for your Insight

(Matt Western) #15

Hopefully it’s a little helpful. :). I also realize I’ve only talked about one part of your post.

I wonder @KMac do you have any insights as a Christian lady that might offer some help ? I know I’ve learned a lot from you. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

(Kathleen) #16

Hello again, @Corey! I’m glad you’ve come here and it seems you’ve gotten some thoughtful advice from these lovely gents (@SeanO and @matthew.western). I agree with all that the context in which whatever was said was said is the most important. I’m pretty jokey, and I sometimes tease really good friends outrageously, but they know me well enough to know that I’m joking. I do hope that this is a case where a conversation or a joke has been misunderstood.

With that said, if it is not, my big question then to them is: what is the point of a strip-tease? I have a hard time believing that it’s anything other than to elicit some sort of sexual adrenaline rush…and I’m pretty sure that would fall under the category of lust. We all agree that that’s probably not the most noble thing to be participating in! (I say that with a heavy layer of British understatement.)

And forget the marriage, how is it effecting the relationship in the here and now? It already can’t be great. That one specific ‘immoral activity’ is just symptom of the depth of brokenness that already exists, and, if left unaddressed, will eventually sink that relationship completely.

If what you think is going on, is indeed going on, then you are wise to be concerned! But do make sure you have ample proof and understanding first. :slight_smile: Praying, brother!

(Karen K) #17

If it helps, I am a dedicated follower and almost everyone in my life think strippers at parties are fine. When and if a stripper shows up I go to my car and tell the hostess that someone can come and get me when the coast is clear. Yes people think i am rediculous but that is ok with me. I don’t think it is a question at all on what a Christian should do in this case

(SeanO) #18

@lyleswife I think there is a clear difference between people who claim the name of Christ and those who do not claim the name of Christ. I can see where if you’re friends / family are unbelievers then you have to try to love them in the best way that you are able and take into account the reality that they do not yet know Christ. But if they claim the name of Christ, Paul exhorts us not even to eat with such a person. Now keep in mind that ‘eating with someone’ in ancient times virtually meant approving of their way of life, so it was a bit different. But the idea is still clear - people who claim to represent Christ and yet flaunt immorality - we should consider carefully Paul’s admonition in I Corinthians 5 to not associate with such a person until they choose to repent of their wrongdoing.

So if the people throwing this party were claiming to be Christian, then there is a much higher standard we are called to hold them to… I still think we have to prayerfully consider what that means, but we should certainly not simply waive our hands and go on as if nothing had happened.

What are your thoughts?

1 Corinthians 5 - It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”