Bible views about money and success

Hi guys,

Can anyone give me input on this, because it really bothers me. Basically, i would like to know what is actually God’s plan for us in the area of finance.

Does God wants ALL of us to be rich and success, and all we need is ask? is it wrong if we want to be rich and successful? most of who agree on this point use verses like :

  • Mat 7:7 “…ask and it will be given to you…”
  • Jer 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you,… plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
  • use the examples of the lives of Joseph, king Solomon, king David, Job, etc as examples of being blessed.
  • Many of them around me use this quote “blessed to be a blessings” that I feel was just a justification for their life style.

compared to verses like 1 Tim 6:8 “But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that” . which I’ve never heard this verse preached or discussed.

I’m not trying to be judgmental, but It gives me so much discomfort seeing many christians around me, even churches and pastors, live glamorously (in my point of view), like travelling around the world every few months, wear/own branded stuffs, eat expensive foods, talking about blessings, success, money on most sermons, dialogues, etc.
I mean, i’m talking about fellow christians, who I’m sure knows the verses like:

  • Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters…”
  • 1 Tim 6:10 “For the love of money is the root of all evil”
    but they dont think what they do is wrong (again, for them, blessed to be a blessing)

or maybe it’s my point of view that is wrong, I’m still not sure, because i see it often in the lives of many christians.

in short, which of the following options do you think is true about money and wealth:

  • God wants all of us to be materially wealthy
  • God has different plan for different people. it’s part of God’s plan if some of us are wealthy, and some of us are not.
  • God isnt really concern about our material wealth, it’s all up to us if we want to pursue it (and succeed), as long as we dont become slave of it.

Thanks in advance guys!

Budi

note: sorry for any grammatical errors :grin:

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Hey Budi!

Good question! I have thought about this myself and I’ll just add to the conversation my own thoughts. In my opinion, being materially wealthy in and of itself isn’t a bad thing. After all, Abraham was materially wealthy:

Genesis 13:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

However, what does this mean when compared with verses in the New Testament such as:

Matthew 19:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Personally, I think passages like the one in Genesis show that the passage in Matthew isn’t simply speaking of a person’s wealth in an absolute sense. However, I think it is referring to people who are trusting in their wealth, whether money or the wealth of their good deeds, for salvation. I think it’s a comment that salvation only comes through faith in Christ.

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Hello and thank you for raising this important question! If I may, I’ll respond from 3 different angles:

  1. From the view of God’s Word

  2. From the view as a former businesswoman blah, blah, blah who spent much time seeking success, prosperity, and esteem (and surrounded by the same, both Christian and non)

  3. From the view of a filmmaker researching the application of Christian living; comparing persecuted Christians around the world with prosperity seeking Christians here in the US

1] God’s Word
The bible has much to say about wealth, prosperity, and as you see (noting your referencing to several verses) acknowledges and addresses man’s seemingly constant struggle between desiring to acquire it and paradoxically, dying to self.

Yes, there are many examples of wealthy and prosperous people in the bible that God used in great ways. Yet, let’s look further into them: what did God require of them?

They had riches and “success”…

Abraham: wealthy - instructed to leave his country and loved ones to blindly relocate to an unknown place for an unknown time

Moses: Traded the environment of a beautiful palace, comfortable living, and esteemed position to leading a mass of often-grumpy, ornery and ungrateful group of people for 40 years in a hot desert, unknowing where the next food or water would come from

Joseph: Betrayed by brothers, sold into slavery, tasted the sweetness of success as Potifer’s assistant - only to be thrown into prison for a crime he did not commit and be forgotten about

Job: Wealthy, successful, walked uprightly with God - and then in a swoop of bad occurrences lost all 10 of his children, his property, possessions, health, and even his desire to live -

David: Prosperous king of Israel who after being anointed as the future king of Israel as a young lad, waited 25 years before it actually happened. In those 25 years he experienced hunger, thirst, uncertainty, constant and blatant reality of death - yet wrote “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures”

Solomon: Great King of Israel who built the temple and esteemed as the most wealthy and the wisest man ever known. Yet ironically as his request for wisdom was pleasing to God, he was not (like his father) a man after God’s heart. This began to show later in his life through his indulgences that angered God and brought great strife to his lineage. Although the Lord burned with anger over Solomon, ”because of my servant David” God spared Solomon from taking away what He had promised David. Later on, Solomon lamented of his pursuit of worldly vanity in Ecclesiastes.

And so many more examples I will not exhaust here.

**Interesting to note, if one had met Job after God restored him …or Moses before he fled Egypt, what would their view of them be?

…or to reverse: if one only knew David as He was in Gath, or Job on the roadside covered in sores, then what would their interpretation of them be? Our lives on this side of heaven are a series of high and low points, and one can never truly begin to understand the glory of God’s intervention in one’s life without understanding a greater scope of context.

As seen in these examples, there is a constant juxtaposition between acquiring treasures, success, power, abundant living and dying to self, suffering, surrender of control (the Beatitudes are a wonderful example).

Again, we see that there is a heavy battle of man’s over worldly gains and surrendering ourselves to God’s perfect will for us - as the bible is filled with examples, reminders, and encouragements to stay focused on the work in the fields of the harvest.

Here are just a few that come to mind:

  • Seek first the Kingdom of God
    • Matthew 6:33
    • In Matthew 6 Jesus discusses laying up treasures in heaven instead of pursuing gifts, reminds us to not worry about earthly provisions, and to seek first His Kingdom - and all these things will be added to us.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

  • Then you will come and pray to me
    • Jeremiah 29:11-13
    • Many Christians love to quote the wonderful verse of Jeremiah 29:11, but if we’re not careful, we risk overlooking some very important insights in verses 12 and 13:

      For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

These verses highlight the relationship we strengthen with Him in seeking Him, praying to Him, drawing closer to Him as we:

  • Seek answers to a problem/decision

  • Strengthen our faith in seeking and pursuing His will

  • Being content with whatever the outcome is and trusting that He:

    • has plans for us
    • is interested and invested in those plans for us
    • will see us through to His best for us, even if we must say no to things we want
  • Take up your cross and follow Me

    • Luke 9:23
    • Jesus tells His disciples to bear the humiliation mark of the cross that resembles a one-way direction to death, instructing them to die daily to themselves.

“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.”

**a. Then He said to them all: It was bad enough for the disciples to hear that Jesus would suffer, be rejected, and die on a cross. Now He told them that they must do the same; or at least have the same intention.

b. Let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me: As Jesus spoke these words, everybody knew what Jesus meant. In the Roman world, before a man died on a cross, he had to carry his cross (or at least the horizontal beam of the cross) to the place of execution.

  • When the Romans crucified a criminal, they didn’t just hang them on a cross. They first hung a cross on him.

  • Carrying a cross always led to death on a cross. No one carried a cross for fun. The first hearers of Jesus didn’t need an explanation of the cross; they knew it was an unrelenting instrument of torture, death, and humiliation. If someone took up his cross, he never came back. It was a one-way journey.

  • In the real-life crosses of the Roman world, no one took them up(suggesting a voluntary action). Instead, crosses were impressed upon people, quite apart from their willingness. Here Jesus said that those who follow Him must voluntarily take up their cross.

  • This isn’t to suggest that we can choose our way to die a living death as followers of Jesus; but as the unchosen circumstances come into life, we choose to bear them as a way to daily die for Jesus’ glory.

c. Let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily: Jesus made deny himself equal with take up his cross. The two phrases expressed the same idea. The cross wasn’t about self-promotion or self-affirmation. The person carrying a cross knew they couldn’t save themselves, and that self was destined to die.

  • Denying yourself means to live as an others-centered person. Jesus was the only person to do this perfectly, but we are to follow in His steps.

d. Take up his cross daily: Jesus made it clear that He is spoke spiritually when He added the word daily. No one could be crucified literally everyday. Daily they could have the same attitude as Jesus had.

  • This is following Jesus at its simplest. He carried a cross, so His followers carry one. He walked to His self-death, so must those who would follow Him.**blue letter bible study guide for Luke 9 commentary by David Guzik

  • The Son of Man had no place to lay his head

    • Luke 9:57,58
    • Taking part in witnessing the miracles of Jesus appeared somewhat glamorous, but Jesus laid it out plainly.

Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

  • The disdain of the rich man
    • Mark 10:22-24

And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Wealth does a lot of things to us. It gives us a sense of control, entices us to indulge, removes our need to depend on God, puffs up the ego, and tempts us to use it for more gain, manipulation of others, satisfying of pleasures etc. Can a wealthy person bypass this and still have a close relationship with God? Absolutely - but look at the added tools of the adversary the wealthy one must fight constantly in hand to hand spiritual combat. The latter is wearing on a person and many stumble here - therefore it is difficult for most wealthy and prosperous to overcome and continue to be fully yielded and focused on God.

2] Seeking Success in the Name of God

There are many well-meaning in the church who have fallen into the understanding of God wanting us to be prosperous. We must remember however, that His ways are so much higher and broader than ours; and therefore defining terms as prosperity, abundance, not lacking any good thing are likely going to differ.

Furthermore there has been a great movement in the Christian church of America, known as the prosperity gospel/ word of faith movement. Amongst them are a scope of misinterpretations and lack of context (or study of God’s word for that matter) as to what the Lord means by these terms as well as the full picture of biblical examples.

There’s a great documentary titled “The American Gospel: Christ Alone” that addresses this, I find it to be fairly balanced and informative. However, I caution that there is discovery and dialogue over the misuse of scripture; and while it’s very important to recognize what is false so we avoid it - it is all-the-more important to focus on what is true - for out of diving into what is true and pure, falsehood is exposed.

I imagine you have a broad, but rewarding road of study ahead for you in this matter, as it is abstract and expansive! I will pray that the Lord direct your path as you seek Him.

Furthermore, if you are interested in reading a brief synopsis of my story of success and lack of success, I share it in this thread:

3] “What is it All For?” The Successful and the Suffering

In your country of Indonesia, many Christians are faced with persecution and oppression. According to the World Watch List (Open Doors) from the period of Nov 2017 - Oct 2018, 4,136 Christians were killed globally for faith-related reasons - an average of 11 per day.

What can we tell them about God’s plan to make them wealthy, healthy, and successful? How is success defined?

To some, it’s esteem - to others it’s suffering for the gospel and delivering the gospel to dying ears that they may have life abundantly (eternally in Christ).

I’m sad to state that I think many of us Christians have gotten it wrong. We want to be acquire great things, even to the point of promising we will glorify God through it. Yet, are we really ready to be tested for such things? Do we know what it takes to be used for greatness according to God’s standard?

Conclusion:

Many Christians caught up in the ideas of prosperity and success risk the distraction of receiving tangible earthly “blessings” (whether it be wealth, health, success, recognition etc) than the eternal blessings of God (divine wisdom, contentment, peace through trials and beyond, purpose-filling responsibilities, pure confidence through seeking and obedience, rewards in heaven).

If only we believed and applied seeking first the Kingdom of God - what blessings He would lavish upon His children! We must remember that God is so much higher than we, and therefore His gifts far surpass the ideas of reward we ponder ourselves. In this context He has such GREAT plans for us - and we have such sparse, meager plans for ourselves.

Matthew 16: 25- 27 Jesus states:

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

I’ll conclude with this excerpt given by the late Reverend Richard Wurmbrand, who for 14 years in Communist Romainian prison for openly preaching the gospel. It is a great example of the juxtaposition of losing life and yet gaining it in such a profound way - the world marvels.

This excerpt is taken from his account to the US Senate given in 1966:

There were different cells. In solitary confinement I was the first 2, nearly 3 years. It was in the most beautiful building of Bucharest in the building of the Secretariat of State for Internal Affairs. It is a building before which all foreigners stand and admire it. I can tell you that your White House is a very little building in comparison with ours. And there, beneath the earth, 10 meters beneath the earth, are the cells. There are no windows in the cells. Air enters through a tube. And there were a few desks with a mattress, with a straw mattress. You had but three steps for to walk. Never were we taken out from these cells except for interrogations when prisoners were beaten and tortured.

For years I have never seen sun, moon, flowers, snow, stars, no man except the interrogator who beat, but I can say I have seen heaven open, I have seen Jesus Christ, I have seen the angels and we were very happy there.

To God be the glory in all things - whether health or sickness, prosperity or poverty, may the great cloud of witnesses we’re surrounded by see and exclaim with great praise the goodness and sovereign sufficiency of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Onward in your discovery of the marvel of Christ and His kingdom, friend.

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Hi @joncarp, thanks for the reply! :smiley:

I agree that being wealthy isn’t a bad thing, and salvation only comes through Christ.
but in terms of way of living, which of the following statement is correct according to you:

  • God wants all of us to be materially wealthy
  • God has different plan for different people. it’s part of God’s plan if some of us are wealthy, and some of us are not.
  • God isnt really concern about our material wealth, it’s all up to us if we want to pursue it (and succeed), as long as we dont become slave of it, or even better if we use it to bless others (while we also enjoy it for ourselves)

thanks in advance!

Budi

Thanks @JEturralde, I really appreciate the time you put into your response. I hope I can at some point see if I can connect everything that you said to scripture (it’s quite a mouthful!)

Awesome story about Wurmbrand; did not know that.

Hi @budicw, I hope you (we) can get a solid understanding about this.

We should not seek riches (Proverbs 23:4, 1 Tim 6:9)
It is a gift, a by product, a result of Wisdom, power to get wealth. So I think in God’s view it should not be the primary focus. If it becomes Mammon (greater than God, the first priority, it is wrong).
God gave it to Solomon, because it was not his focus, it was not what he sought after (His error was not wealth 1 Kings 11:1-5)

If it is a result, a byproduct of a life well lived, then by all means, have as much as possible… but but but but we must consider all scripture also, so… we have to be rich towards God as well. Jesus said we’ll have the poor with us forever, so somebody out there needs help.
So that those who have a lot don’t have to much, and those who lack don’t have to little (so that none will be destitute)

Seeking money is a worldly reality. It answers all: Ecl 10:19. We need it, but we should seek first His kingdom, and then He will supply. He supplies seed for sowing and for bread (you will have all sufficiency).
If your priorities are right, you would rather help others (they will know us because of our love for one another, and not for our wealth)
I guess money will amplify your heart, be it greed or charity.

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
Luk 3:14

And that’s why I am not a soldier!

Assumptions:
We can be rich or poor (God allows both).
God is for us to have all sufficiency.
We should all work (those who do not want to, should starve i.e. no handouts).
Those who have more than others, should help where they can.

Thank you so much Jessica for a very thorough explanation and perspective! what a read wow
Thank you for the resources and your amazing story of relationship and conviction to God!

I’ll respond to you more thoroughly after i digest all your explanation :smiley:

Budi

  1. God’s Word
    After reading your explanations and the verses you gave, i just realized that it seems there are different examples between Old Testament and New Testament when it comes to wealth and money. From the verses and then the lives of bible characters from Old Testament like Abraham,Solomon, etc, they were wealthy and prosperous. If we see in the New testament like Paul, John the baptist, and other disciples, they suffered greatly and even died for Christ. Even Jesus himself wasn’t rich during his lives on earth.

I honestly have never meet a person who is very wealthy and still have a close relationship with God in this modern world. Because a close relationship with God would lead you to a low profile life, not falling to the temptation of buying expensive stuffs and luxurious vacations. I think material wealth are the biggest weakness for human, and the wiser option for us not to get tempted is to leave it all together.
For me it is “needs vs desires” very simple.

  • Do we need food? yes, we die if we dont eat. Do we need fine dining and buffet? no.
  • Do we need clothes? yes. Do we need branded clothes? no.
  1. Seeking Success
    Thank you for letting me know about “The American Gospel”, this movie really speaks the concern that I have for years. I feel that something is wrong with modern christianity.

Also thanks you for telling me your personal story with Christ from the thread, what an amazing story. I love how you intimately connected to God that able to always hear His voice telling you which direction to go in your lives.

(the first face that appeared in the film was Nabeels Qureshi, his book “Seeking Allah Finding Jesus” changed me a lot as a christian, I forever grateful for him)

  1. The Successful and suffering
    Actually, although we do face persecution here in indonesia, but it mostly happen in remote cities, while in big cities such as Jakarta, Surabaya, christians has a much more freedoms of religiuous activities. You can find big churches in many places in those cities.
    Thank you for letting me know Rev. Richard wurmbrand, what an amazing man of God, i will read his book for further study.

Thank you so much Jessica, I’m grateful for God’s people like you in this community that’s willing to give many insights to help others.

Budi

@budicw Hey!

To be honest, I’m really not sure which of those options I would choose. Although, I do think it’s more a question of motivation for acquiring wealth, rather than simply the wealth itself. The wealth is supposed to be a means to an end. However, I think it becomes problematic when the wealth turns into an end in and of itself, and a person starts looking to the wealth to give them things that only God is capable of giving.

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Hey Jon, yes i understand, it’s not an easy answer haha. Right now i decided not not to care to much (ambitious) to earn more money (i have a business and works in a corporate too), i want to focus myself on finding the opportunity to serve God. I believe it’s all down to our relationship with God, I believe He will show me the way and how to live.

Thank you so much for taking time to help me with my question!

Be blessed

Budi

Hi Bundi,

The question you’re asking is not difficult to understand. Very plain, straightforward and logical to anyone who has ever read the bible and “been around the block”. So I give a ‘thumbs up’ to your question.

The answer to your question however, is probably trickier than you think because regardless of whether you focus on living with money or living without much of it, there can be a great pressure, (either way) to continue to be a servant of money and to need to make more and more of it, and to be discontent in your relationship to money.

It’s common for poor people to point the finger at rich people and believe the rich wouldn’t be content if they didn’t have all the things they have But this is not necessarily true. Some of those rootsy-tootsy folks would absolutely be content without their wealth. Conversely, there are poor folk who are constantly discontent with their level of provisions, and would be even more discontent if they had less.

The money may come or the money may go away. Keep in mind that in neither case should it rob us of being content or divert us from following our life’s purposes (get those true life purposes moving forward and you’ll get a better grasp on your relationship toward money).

Regarding your concern for possibly being judgmental. That’s a healthy concern. No doubt there are christian folks who are way off on this topic. But that doesn’t need to come as a big surprise. And it doesn’t mean you have to be confused on the subject. There are multiple guideposts that can serve to point you in a wise direction. And if you’re humble enough to tweak the nuances of your viewpoint as you move forward you can self-correct in ways you see fit as you learn and grow.

I hope you’re able to hit the target on this one (for richer or for poorer). There are some unpleasant lessons in store for you if you don’t. :wink:

Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17)

@budicw. I did not read through every post, so I hope I am not parroting any thought that has already been advanced. Your question reminded me that in the book of Acts we read where the Saints sold all they had and laid it at the disciple’s feet. In that sense, I guess we could conclude that the disciple became wealthy. However, it is telling that the riches they were given were immediately recycled back into the needs of the church. That concept of wealth gives me pause. Why would I pursue wealth if it is not intended to be a tool in the ministry GOD has laid before me?

Having material wealth is not a bad thing, what you do with it, can be. Also, I have learned that our world’s emphasis on possessing material things is not synonymous with wealth. Otherwise, why would a rich man ever consider suicide?

The longer I live I continue to learn that possessions are not wealth. Just as a flat stomach and tight abs do not equal health. Many of our failures rest in an unquestionable adaption to definitions that come from a fallen world.

When we remember you can gain the whole world but lose your soul; it changes the purpose of material wealth. When we learn blessings are deposited into hards wide opened, then we learn the blessing of holding this world with looseness. This will allow blessings to flow through us as well as to us.

Hi Timotto, thank you so much for the answer.

I agree that the presure can come whether you are poor or rich, if your understanding is wrong.

As I think about my question again, what confused me is not what the bible said about money and wealth, it is actually very clear (as i mentioned from the verses). But what is confused me is the way of living of many christians around me that for me is contradicted to what is in the bible, which then make me wonder if my understanding from the bible is wrong.
Do you think it is wrong or not if christians luve luxuriously, wear branded clothes and watches, own sport cars, etc? I’m talking about christians and even pastors. (For a more clear example of these, you can check out an instagram account by the name @pastorinstyle, which has caused pros and cons between believers)

“Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.”
1 John 2:6 NLT

Thank you again for the time and effort you put to help me on this, best regards.

Budi

Regarding:

it’s possible that your basic understanding of the bible on this is on point.
At the same time it’s also possible your train of thought on the matter is somewhat off the rails. Or at least might perhaps have room to grow a bit more.

Frankly I don’t think it’s wrong for Christians to live “luxuriously”. (Now, what you mean by luxury I’m not certain… Where do you draw your line?)

Frankly I have no problem wearing branded clothing. In fact it would be difficult to even find un-branded clothing to purchase in the stores. Homemade clothing is actually a lot more expensive (It typically costs more to buy the fabric than it does to buy the clothes new, plus you’ve got to figure in waste, thread, fasteners the cost of the sewing machines (typically you need at least 2 of them (a surger and standard machine), not to mention what your time is worth… And that’s if you can get past the learning curve of making your own patterns, because the patterns you buy typically don’t fit right.
I found one of the things you can do is to buy your clothes used at thrift stores. It takes a bit more time, but it’s doable. Shortly after discovering that discovery I found you can actually buy name brands even cheaper from outlet stores when they have a super sale. So if the problem is spending too much money on clothes that’s probably the best way to go.

Regarding watches, are you talking about Brands like Rolex? Or do you mean you don’t believe in spending the money on like say… An Iron Man watch from Walmart? I usually just use my cell phone for that, which brings me to wondering… Are you against having a cell phone? If so do you think it’s ok to have a flip phone without it being a smart phone? And regarding payment plans, What do you think about the moral consequences of a pre-paid plan versus a contract you’re locked into?

Regarding owning a “sports” car I’m sure you don’t mean owning an amazing $65000 pick up truck used for my construction jobs… Never mind if it comes with power windows and leather seats… And also never mind that previous old clunker truck (good 'old “Red Fred”) was unreliable and inefficient.

One other thing about living luxuriously would be
Is it more God honoring to live without electricity? Electricity is a luxury isn’t it?
Is it more God honoring to live without indoor plumbing? Indoor plumbing is a luxury. Right?
What about a concrete driveway versus a gravel driveway? Is concrete a luxury? Would it honor God more to have a gravel driveway instead of a concrete driveway?
What about refrigeration? Jesus said in Mat 5 or 6: take no thought for tomorrow, for the marrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. So, maybe having a refrigerator would be less Godly??? since it’s technically taking thought for tomorrow???
… Based on what Jesus taught" do you think he’d be okay with Martha or Mary having a refrigerator now days?? After all, Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.”
1 John 2:6 NLT So logically this means no refrigerator or freezer right???

What I’m trying to say by all of these sarcastic and smart aleck details is that this topic is more complex than what you’re representing. No doubt you’ve found somebody on Instagram who says he’s a Christ follower, who is not actually following Christ. But what is that to you??? Christ didn’t fancy the religious leaders in his day. Have things altogether changed since then in that arena?

Hopefully I have demonstrated a sampling that there’s plenty of confusion available to sign up for if you’re willing to subject yourself to it. … But I don’t think it’s necessarily wise to go there.

Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17)

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Hi @timotto! thanks for staying on this topic.

I believe the questions you’re asking & the comparison between products can be simplified to a simple comparison: needs vs desires.

I’m not against cellphone, but if God tell me that i should, then i would. what do you think God want? that was my original question actually. It’s not about me :slight_smile:

If you check the IG account I mentioned before, you would see there are pastors who wears $100k patek philippe watch, $250k birkin bags, etc. while we know church’s congregation in a country like indonesia are people who lives with below average income.

yep i get the sarcasm, it’s okay haha let’s not avoiding difficult conversation when it’s necessary.

if you ask what is it to me, it’s pretty simple, because I care and it makes me worried about the lives of other christians. If i only care about myself, then I wouldnt care if everyone else go to hell as long as I know I go to heaven.

Yes i know it’s complex, there will be a lot of confusion, and i dont really know where to draw the line, that’s why i asked, because i want to learn the correct teaching and the opinions from other christians.

Best regards
Budi

I agree that a preoccupation with money or possessions is a snare of the Devil.

I think you can also see that Christian folks preoccupied with monetary meagerness sometimes hamper their ability to function as blessing.

In my experience I believe the following pieces of biblical wisdom indicate a best attitude moving forward.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (2 Peter 1:3)

John 20:20-23
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, “Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?” Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, "Lord, and what shall this man do?"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

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Such a great question and so many great answers.

I just wanted to share a message from one of my favorite authors and speakers here. I found it very encouraging.

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Thank you everyone for the comments, sorry for the late respond,

I have been reading Richard’s Wurmbrand’s book “Tortured for Christ”

Thank you @JEturralde for letting me know of such an amazing man of God. This book is en eye-opening to me and i’m sure to many christians as well. This is actually part of what I was concern about, sometimes the freedom that we have in this modern world kind of diverting/distracting our attention to what is important as followers of Christ, which is to share the gospel to as many people as possible.

I will keep on learning on this matter and most importantly focus on building a close relationship with God, I convinced He will give me a clear instruction of how i should live concerning wealth and money.

Be blessed

Budi