Crime Syndicate and the Doctrine "Once Saved Always Saved"

We have always known that most crime Syndicate heavily depends on God before stepping out for their mission.

Italian Mafia depended on the Roman Catholic, Chinese Mafia depended on Guan Kong, others may as well.

If a Christian is involved in such Syndicate crime are they still a Christian or a saved Christian? The involvement is not just associating it’s also carrying out missions and managing of establishments.


Interesting question. You can also ask the same question of the Crusades.

I’m reminded of John Lennox in a debate with Hitchens, who said that anybody who takes up arms to further Jesus’ kingdom by violence is actually disobeying Jesus. You cannot propagate truth by violence.

A question could be asked as you have ‘If any individual or group, operating in Christ’s name, furthers its own cause by violence (or any other means that is against what Christ taught), are they truly a Christian in the first place?’

I would say not, which answers your second question about those that are truly saved committing violence. Those that are truly saved, that is, placing their faith in Jesus’ finished work on the cross, would not commit violence to further His cause.

As Jesus said to Pilate during his trial:

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” John 18:36

Does that help somewhat ?


@Kenny_Chen thank you for posting this question. It is something I often wondered myself. I will share my understanding. For someone to be a Christian something “magical” occurs. Their spirit which is dead becomes alive and the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of them. It would not be possible to be involved in organized crime and be a Christian if somebody experienced this.
I was involved in a particular aspect of crime for many years and I looked up to Mafia figures as well as rappers like 2Pac. These people prayed to God, wrote songs about God and I myself would pray to God before doing something dangerous. The fact of the matter was though I was not a Christian.
Disclaimer: Nobody knows the heart except God and that person so I cannot really comment on another’s salvation, but I hope my answer helps with your question.


Thank you @Kenny_Chen for raising such an important question. I agree with both responses here. I can’t fathom a person professing to be a Christian carrying out violence or knowingly supporting it.
@brianlalor your story fascinates me. Would you consider sharing your testimony in the “ Member testimonies” category?


I will consider that @sig I am still figuring out how secure this site is. Here is a short version of it


Thank you. Your story of redemption is powerful. And your family is precious. Oh God is so good to us. We chase after so much, thinking this world has something to offer.
Thinking there is something here that will fill us, sustain us. Nothing outside the saving, transforming power of Jesus Christ will satisfy that longing. Even then, while we are here, we have to fight spiritual warfare daily. Thank you again :heart:

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Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, Brian! @brianlalor
You’ve certainly inspired many, myself included, with the road you’ve traveled… leading back into His arms :slight_smile:

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Thank you for sharing some impressive reference and personal life sharing.

For @matthew.western, with John Lennox reference, yes John condemns Christian violence but never did he say Christian don’t commit violence or those committing violence are not Christian at all. In that aspect he too agreed Christian commit violence otherwise there is no need to condemn their action.

For @brianlalor, excellent sharing. I read it and felt these are actual feelings of many people today surviving in organized crime syndicates. The thing about organized crime, once in it’s hard to get out. The unlucky ones leave in a body bag or worst fate crippled for life. The lucky ones are the ones didn’t go too far as a career and inactively leave.

My understanding is that just because you have magically receive a helper doesn’t magically change the environment you are in. Unless it’s a prison ministry then you’ve paid for them the syndicates are more forgiving in that aspect but the enemies won’t. Still depending on how far up the career was. Any territory leader would be almost impossible to live a Christian life before going to jail.

Having said that, I studied in a school where 80% of my classmates are recruited into syndicates fighting over territorial wars and over pride. I never found out about such seriousness until many years later I left school and meet up with them to chat of old days. I saw them went to church, saw them went for church camps, saw them baptized, believed they were pure Christian and yet many years later found out they were involved in many deadly gang fights during youth days and are now inactively left.

If they were to have died in those fights, my question would really look into more seriousness than curiosity.

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Many who first become Christians do not immediately discard all sinful behavior. No sin is any different from another. Actually all continue to sin and eliminate them as they grow. Fornication is rampant. Getting out of a syndicate is no different in my mind.

Unless there is a new definition of what a Christian is, that is a totally depraved individual who has been saved by grace alone, then I do not understand what appears to be new definitions that seem to say some Christians sins disqualify them as true Christians while other sins do not.

Luke 10:25-27 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

For a Christian involved in whether it be a syndicate, an army, or any group or anything that we do, really a couple questions needs to be asked:
Are we loving our Lord with all our heart, all our soul, with all our strength, and our mind and our neighbour as ourselves?
And also with everything we do, who does it glorify? Does it glorify God? That answer will reside in our hearts :slight_smile :slight_smile: