Today i had a talk with a friend of mine on religion. It started of as a side talk in biology class when i expressed that what we were studying was clear evidence of intelligent design. We then on started talking about creation and other theories so long story short, he said that creation and the big bang are illogical since they imply that everything came from nothing or that god who came from nothing created everything.
I then replied that God is outside of time and matter…
He stated that if God created time, time is dimension, and if time is a dimension then we can time travel and he quoted Steven Hawkins’ time travel experiment and conclued by that that we can’t time travel. Hence God is not the creator of time and the universe.
He then said that he believes that time is relative and not a dimension.
I am pretty sure there is a logical fallacy there, but I’m unable to pinpoint it.
What would you suggest as an answer for that question?
My friend seems open to further discussions and wants to get to the truth. What are the next steps or subjects we can talk about ?
Thanks in advance !
I like the question. If God didn’t, then who did? Who set everything in motion? That was the start of time. I believe God did. Something from nothing. I believe Ravi has said, nothing can explain itself. Play on words there. Yes, there had to be an Awesome intelligent being behind creation to have creation come from nothing. I cannot think of any source other than an a Creator , God. Man needs to humble himself at just the thought of that and not try to explain it happened on it own. I’ve yet to see something materialize from nothing. Matter has three basic forms, but God is Spirit. We live in a world of matter. The Spirit of God created matter and time at the same time. God is Good to All. Fred Proch
Thanks for the response Fred.
I love that you are engaging fellow students in your biology class. When I took biology in college I also found the description of how amazingly the body work pointed to the fact that we are designed!
As far as time goes, yes, I believe God created time. Time and space form a continuum. This means they are part of the same field, just like electromagnetism. In this way, time is dimensional, it can be measured. The fact that it is relative would actually clue us in to its dimensionality as in order for that concept to work you have to be able to measure it.
The idea that we cannot time travel, besides being a red herring, isn’t technically true. We are time traveling, into the future, at one second per second. We cannot travel into the past, but I am not sure how this supports his argument against the dimensionality of time. This mainly has to do with entropy, the universe is moving from order to disorder which has fixed the arrow of time so to speak.
Further, God did not “come” from anywhere. This is a category error. He is placing God in the same category of created things along with the universe.
To get the conversation going you might find it helpful to watch this video and send it to him to watch. Then discuss the ideas it contains. Please come back as you have further questions!
Thank you @Joshua_Hansen,
This answer is amazing!
Couldn’t have asked for more! I wills surely send him the video as soon as i watch it.
Will also research some of the concepts u have spoken of
Thank you again
With a lots of gratitude
No problem! PLEASE come back if you have any further questions or run into any additional objections.
I surely will
Hello again @Joshua_Hansen
My friend just asked me about the omnipotence paradox. I replied with Richard Swinburne’s defenition of omnipitence
He disagrees my def and says that omnipotence is the power to do whatever he wants
He got to the conclusion that gid is powerful but not allpowerful
How would u responds
Thanks a lot
I am not sure what specifically he is objecting to. But, God is omnipotent in that he can do anything which is not incoherent and (this part is a bit controversial) will not do (or cannot do) anything contrary to his nature. For instance God cannot create nonsense. He cannot create square circles, married bachelors, non-free moral agents, or non-existent being. Because these are words put together that have no positive content. They are definitionally contradictory and, therefore, it is not a limitation to God’s power for him to say that these things cannot exist by definition.
Does that approach an answer to his objection?
Yes i think it should
Thanks a lot Joshua. How could i thank you ?
Well that could now be called the thankfulness paradox
So which is it, is time a dimension or not? He can’t have it both ways!
So, when this guy wakes up at 7:00am to get ready for work, is
It relatively 7a or absolutely? I would say absolutely.
Either way, God created time, matter and space and He decided to
enter our world on a rescue mission so that we could share in His divinity and one day space, time and matter will be things of the past as we are joined with God for eternity. No need to concern oneself with time ‘then,’ if I can use the word then, which implies time, but in essence will be a state of being!
Thanks for that response! It’s so true, we sometimes see the evidence everyday and try to ignore it or even we get so caught up in our own dilemmas that we don’t even realize that we encounter daily evidence supporting creation. May He mercifully open our eyes that we may see reality as it is
I am not quite sure about the logic of - “since we can’t time travel, hence God is not the creator of time and the universe”. In my view, it just does not follow.
The other questionable premise there is, “if time is a dimension then we can time travel”. The obvious problem is the fact that we age with time. We can time travel relative to space lineally but we’re limited by aging. By not being able to time travel without aging, has no bearing on whether God created time and the universe or not.
Thank you for the response @nkaravaki!!
Hey @linda.1.dagher! First, thanks for posting this question. Of all the aspects of God’s creation, I find Time to be among the most fascinating
Now then, before getting to the question, I’d like you to consider how you would define a “god” – not THE God as we know Him, but a “god” in general. For me, when you boil it all down, the term fundamentally means “a seat of ultimate authority”. In other words, whatever a “god” might be, it’s at the very top of its respective food chain.
So apply this to the question. If God did not create Time, then Time exists outside of God’s authority. This is vital, because there cannot be two seats of ultimate authority – when they conflict, one would necessarily take precedence over the other. That being the case, if God has no authority over Time, this logically implies that Time has authority over God. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, then, God is not God, but rather Time is God and God is merely its servant.
In either case, I think it’s fair to point out that even in this potentiality, the existence of a “god” is still logically necessary and undeniable.
Thank you @nshdudeb , we sometimes forget who “god” and we start questioning god’s authority and ability, and we forget that HE IS GOD.
Thank you for that reminder.
I would add that God is not contingent but a necessary being. He can’t help but exist always. There is no not being with Him.
Time is wrapped up with the physical. God is spiritual and therefore transcends time and the physical. He caused time to be created with the physical beginnings of the universe. Therefore he is outside or beyond time but may interact within it as He chooses.
Note also we tend to say God exists before time but really we mean this in a logically caused way and not temporally.(since there was no time before the Big Bang as understood presently)
You might try William Lane Craig’s book on Time.
Note also there are different theories of time like block time in that everything is “present” to God at once.
Hope this may give you a few more ideas to ponder.
Thank you Stephen, these ideas will sure help me to dive deeper in that subject