Didn't Satan actually win?

Currently only 31% of the world population is Christian. At least that’s what internet sais. Jesus said the narrow road leads to heaven and the broad one to hell.
God made every human in his image. So he put some efford into it I suppose.
But in the end the bigger part of the people will go to satans place and the smaller part to his place.
Didn’t he just simply lose the battle of humanity against satan then?

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Hello @dePloert, Satan lost the battle because his goal was to first become God. Once that didn’t work he then set on destroying God’s relationship with humanity. While he did do that it wasn’t permanent. Christ entered into humanity so now we can be reconciled to God, but that choice is up to every individual not satan. He may influence and entice but choosing Christ is still a choice.

Also God doesn’t look at this as winning points each human being he does love. He loves them so much that he will never force himself on them and will never force them to be with him in eternity. I also wouldn’t trust the internets numbers. The reason for this is because there are a lot of places where Christians are being persecuted. Not so much in the west but more so in the middle east and places in Africa and Asia. So they have to be in hiding or risk being killed. We won’t know the true number of God’s people until we are all with him.

God Bless :slight_smile:

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Hi Luna thanks for your response!
Even if God doesn’t view it that sense. Do you think the majority of humanity goes to heaven or hell? The bible seams to insinuate that it’s the minority that goes to heaven over the less traveled path. Wouldn’t it be weird if there are more people in hell than in heaven. I have read multiple explaniations on hell. One sais that it’s eternal suffering and the other sais it’s more like a garbage bin. So people that go to hell will seize to exist. The second option would be nicer and make more sense, but the first one seems a bit more biblical.
If God values our free will so much why do we only get to choose in our brief time on earth. What if I go to hell and I figure I was wrong. Then I’m stuck there for eternity without a choice.

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@dePloert: An interesting proposition. If by winning you mean the number of human beings Satan takes into hell with him (which appears to be far more than will go to be with the Lord), then I think we miss what the battle was all about. As Luna @Luna pointed out, it’s God’s love for us that sent Christ to redeem mankind…that they should always be with him and not experience death (both spiritual and, in some cases, physical death.) Read the story of Gideon’s army of 300 men who defeated the Midianites (Judges 6-7). Numbers are of no consequence to God.

If we want to look at numbers, Satan took only 1/3 of the fallen angels with him when he rebelled against God. That leaves 2/3 that remained with the Father. (Rev.12:4). So, in that case, Satan was the loser…if we are talking numbers.
What we have to understand is that God’s power overrules Satan’s, so that it isn’t a matter of numbers. Satan is still one of God’s creations. Creation can never be greater than its Creator.

Revelation 19: 6-7 speaks of the great multitude who will be worshipping at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb:
Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying,“Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”
Revelation 5:11-12
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice,“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

God loves even the people who will be lost to eternal damnation. It grieves His heart. But He welcomes with open arms those who will be with Him. Think of the celebration that awaits those who respond to His offer of love and reconciliation. Those joining Satan will not be celebrating. In fact, it will be quite the opposite.

So, who is the real winner? Is it Satan who takes the many who walk through the wide gate but suffer in eternal torture? Or is it God who welcomes the few who come through the narrow gate and enjoy eternity with Him?
When Jesus cast the legion of demons out of the Gadarene man, they pled with Him not to cast them into the Abyss (Luke 8:31). Matthew states it that they didn’t want to be tortured before the appointed time (Matthew 8:29). So, even the fallen angels fear what lies ahead for them.

What was won on Calvary wasn’t numbers. It’s the ability of the believer to say with John,
… the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. (I John 4:4)
And: 1 Cor. 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
So, I guess the question remains, “Which winning side do we want to be on…the one of numbers, or the one of eternity with God?” Even then, the ones who go to be with the Lord won’t be able to be counted because they will be so vast.

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Hey Daniel @dePloert, Great question. First off, God and Satan are not comparable - this is not a war or battle. God is God and satan is just a fallen angel who is lost in his pride and staying in misery himself. Hell is separation from God, not the kingdom of satan. It is not like he is ruling and being happy there. But being with God, in heaven, we live and also be fulfilled in ways we cant even comprehend - the benefits of alllll good.

Another important point here is when we see it as Satan vs God setups, we forget that man is the one who is doing the choosing. We are the true evils and the true evil is in our hearts. Only God can give us new hearts when we are born again. We “blame” satan but truly we are the ones choosing to reject God. So it is not God vs satan. It is us vs us. It’s simple, choose our own way, rely on ourselves and die and be eternally separated from God vs trust in the Lord that he has the best intention for our lives and have an eternal life.

I hope this helps.
God Bless

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Hi @dePloert! :smiley:
Thank you so much for your question! I think it’s almost unavoidable as a Christian, especially in these days, to wonder why does Satan appear to be more successful than God. The world has become so decadent, so hostile to God that it makes you wonder why does this happen if, according to 1 John 3:8 the “reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil” but when you look at the world, it appears that the devil has the upper hand. Sometimes, I wonder why is this if God indeed wants all people to be saved, according to 1 Timothy 2:4.

But what I found helpful is that God’s perspective on the success of Jesus’ ministry is different that ours. Jesus himself suggested in Matthew 7:13-14 that there are more people who reject God than those who humble themselves and accept God’s salvation. So I think that the Bible teaches that God is more interested in genuine followers, even if they are few, than a lot of nominal followers who do not have a personal relationship with Him.

I don’t think the Bible suggests in some way that for God to be successful over the devil, he had to have at the very least the “lion’s share” of humanity to get them saved and to let Satan have the smaller part. I don’t think God measures success in numbers. Rather, He wanted to provide a way of salvation for everyone, which He did in the person of Christ, so that “whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). My view on salvation is that, although God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), not all will be saved because not all are willing to believe.

Returning to your question, I believe that although Satan was defeated at the cross, God still allows him to be active in the world that still is under his authority, because of its not accepting God’s salvation.

As I understand this, the devil’s defeat means that he doesn’t have the right to accuse God’s people, since they, as believers, have received Christ’s righteousness and they are God’s children (John 1:12). Believers are not under Satan’s authority anymore (Colossians 1:13-14), whereas the world still is (1 John 5:19).

As Christians, being “in Christ”, who defeated Satan, we join his defeat and we’re free from living under Satan’s authority.
Hope this helps! May God bless you! :slightly_smiling_face:

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@dePloert It’s not weird to me if the majority were going to hell because it means they decided to make the choice to define good and evil for themselves. They decided not to include God in their life.

Another thing that you have to consider is the fact that nowhere does it say people stop sinning after they die. Those who go to hell may very well still be sinning while in hell. I bring this up because people have an issue with eternal punishment and seem to think that its overkill. But to my knowledge I’ve never seen a passage in the bible that says sin stops when you die. Remember while we live in the natural we are unique in the sense that we have spirits as well. And the Bible is clear that spiritual beings can sin, your example would be Satan and other demons. Which makes sense as to why they can’t be redeemed.

If the wages of sin is death if they can’t die how can they pay that price? And you can apply the same concept to us after death has taken place. How can you be redeemed if you have already died and rejected the gift Christ gives? You are no longer in your physical body after death and are simply a spirit.

Now while there are different opinions on what hell is there are a few things we can all agree on about hell. It’s separation from God (true separation). You have to think what this really means. If God is love, joy, peace, the creator of these things, and the one who is the ultimate source of life and all that is good, then when you are separated from him you don’t have these things anymore.

Just being without God in every possible way is hell in of itself because everything that is good and wonderful you are separated from. I’m not saying I have it all figured out but these are somethings to ponder about.

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That’s an interesting question, @dePloert.

And you have a very interesting view on who the winner seems to be - Satan, because he takes more people to hell than God takes to heaven.

So while all of these people are wailing and gnashing their teeth in hell for all eternity, are they appreciating what Satan has done for them? Are they loving him for it? Are they singing his praises - jolly good fellow, and all that - for seducing them into hell with him? Or would you expect that they are raging against him for it?

I would expect that they rage against him forever!

And the few who are in heaven with God - how do you think they feel toward Him? Total adoration and worship? Indescribable love and joy? Eternal wonder and glory?

Yeah, I’d go with that.

So the final score is: God ends up with billions who love Him forever…
Satan ends up with trillions who loathe him forever.

Who did you say the winner was again?

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Hi Luna,
Interesting idea that people continue sinning when they are in hell. The question I have is. When you are already in hell and you start loving Jesus and all and repent can you go to heaven?. If in the theology free will is of such importance. Why is it only given to us in this really tiny fragment of time and then taken from us forever??

If I’m not mistaken. God is the one who wants us to be happy right? Satan is the one who wants to bring us down. So if the smaller part of the people will be happy eventually. God didn’t really get it his way for the bigger part. Satan is evil so he must love to bring us down. I don’t think satan will mind people hating him. At the end God lost most of his children to hell. So how is that victorious. If you had ten children and eight of them chose with their free will to die instead of being with you. Would you feel victorious?

@dePloert you are making the assumption that people in hell will have a change of heart. Maybe they will and maybe they won’t. I won’t say I know the answer to that. But I did answer your question about why it is forever in my previous post. After death we are just spirit. The wages of sin is death and once death has happened and you continue to sin how can you be redeemed? Jesus had to enter into humanity in order to redeem humanity. His physical body had to die in order to pay for our sins. Once we die and we are only spirit there is nothing to redeem.

When you read in the old testament about how they scarificed animals to pay for the sins of the people they had to do this repeatedly because it was not permanent. Sin is transgression of the law. Sin goes beyond just the physical which is why even if we died to pay for our own sins it would not be enough. Thus the reason Christ came to cover us in every way possible. But this only happens if you accept the gift. Now if you reject the gift you are saying to God not only do you not want to be with him you are also saying you are going to try and see if you measure up to God’s standards, which is the law. No one can meet those standards. But if you choose to accept Christ he meets those standards for you. You then trade your unrightouness for his rightiousness.

Now if you are asking why God made it this way then I can honestly say I don’t know. But what I do have peace in is the fact God is perfectly just and no one goes to hell who didn’t receive the chance to know Christ.

Man, I see where you’re coming from, but Jesus’s ultimate purpose was to not get numbers, but his purpose was to bring salvation to those who need it and will confess in their heart that Jesus is God and willfully accept salvation. It states Matthew (Matthew 18:12–14) and Luke (Luke 15:3–7) God leaves the 99 for the 1 that is lost and unsaved. From these verses alone, we can conclude that saving just one person and granting them eternal life is enough for him. Also, I find that you are confining God in a box of what culture says God is. When people are not truly familiar with the characteristics of God they think that he will just accept anyone even if they sin because he loves us, but that is not the case. In the Bible, it states that God is loving, beautiful, infinite, all-powerful, and a JUST GOD who brings justice to evil. Now, if God didn’t punish those who sin like you and I, would he really be considered a JUST GOD? No, he wouldn’t. That’s we can say that we are saved from our rightful punishment when Jesus died on the cross for our sins and the wrath of God’s punishment was put onto him. Now to obtain this forgiveness of sin, you simply have to believe and profess what he has done is true, and that he is God. Like a parent, He wants the best for us, but like an amazing parent, he punishes his children whenever they do something evil or wrong. Even if people go against him, he loves us till the very end no matter that’s why he punishes the ones who do evil.

Also, I’m glad you asked the question: “if God is good, then why is punishing us for temporal sin?”
Well, the answer is pretty simple. Since God, is all perfect and has never sinned once, how dirty and evil would we look in the eyes of God? This is where humans fall short of the glory of God because we categorize sin and evil on different levels, but the truth is, sin is sin, and nothing can change that! Of course, you might say that something like lust or just a white lie never really hurt anyone, but it does. I’m giving you my testimony because I truly love you, and I was once in your place where I was questioning who God is. When God said that lust and sin are death I believe it’s literal. Due to my pornography addiction that I had before I was saved, I almost hung myself because of how much it affected my life, but through God’s grace, he has spoken to me and said turn away from your sins and leave it at my feet. If that isn’t what God meant by leaving the 99 righteous to save the one, I don’t what it means. Thus, I can easily say that will all my heart that sin truly leads to death and that’s why we need a redeemer like Jesus. He delights in the one that professes he is Lord because he is made right before the eyes of God. God bless you man, I hope that you truly find answers.

His victory is not getting numbers of those who barely believe he is God, but his victory is in the salvation he gives everyone if they accept who he truly is; but like a loving God, he’s not going to force you to believe in him because forcing something that is against the will of a human is not love.

An example would look something like this: There is a man who is good and has done nothing wrong, but he still works as a servant to those who will accept his help, and there is another man who does everything evil and literally murders everyone he sees, but he has killed more people than the people who have accepted the other man’s help and his generosity. Who won the battle of life? If you’re truly, just confining the battle between good and evil to numbers, you’re basically saying the murderer has won. That in fact, Hitler has won against evil, but we simply know, that in our heart, that the man that has never done wrong has truly won the battle of life because the act of doing good such not be even compared to evil when it comes to God and Satan. God is all-powerful and Satan is weak and has limited power when it comes to God.

Here is a video that will address your problems and questions perfectly if you truly decide to listen:

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Hi, Daniel. Thought provoking questions are so great here, and the equally thoughtful responses are as well. I think there are a few misconceptions in your statement. First, Satan’s place is neither that of his own creation or his own desire. Second, he does not enter hell of his own choice – he is thrown into that and kept there. Satan doesn’t win. Do you think we often limit God and His reasoning by our own limited reasoning? I have at times tried to understand God by making Him like myself in reasoning and thought process, but as I am far inferior to Him, that simply will not work. Yet I cannot necessarily fully comprehend how He works and thinks because I AM so inferior. And that is simply a statement of fact, not fishing for pity, etc. I have three brothers all over 6 feet tall. I am inferior to them in stature, and that’s not saying I am inferior in ability or knowledge or anything else – it, too, is just a statement of fact.

Third, God and Satan are not involved in a popularity contest. It is not about charisma. It is about faith and repentance. There is no inference in Scripture that Satan will rule anything in hell, including people who rejected Christ.

Fourth, God and Satan are not in a time-line fight. Time is only an earthly thing. Time is morning and evening, a day. It started at creation, yet God has been in existence forever. He has ALREADY overcome Satan. Satan still has to give an account of himself even now to God, as we saw in the book of Job. Nothing has changed. We all have the choice to choose God. Most will not, and that is on us, not Satan. He doesn’t go to hell for us. We don’t answer to him. We never have, and we never will.

Great question! Thanks for the push to think more deeply about this. I appreciate it!

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Well, @dePloert - there is one sense in which you are right - God doesn’t get everything He wants. He wants all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. But clearly that doesn’t happen. He isn’t willing that any should perish, but obviously many do.

So did God not foresee that it would turn out like this? Was He taken by surprise? Did this “experiment” blow up in His face?

I don’t think so. God doesn’t have to “experiment” - at least, not in order to reveal anything to Himself. I think He knew the end from the beginning. But I think there was something deeper going on that was more important to Him than winning back all the souls He’d wanted. Even God prioritizes His desires.

But I don’t think that deeper thing He was after was “mankind’s happpiness.” I think it is an error to assume that “mankind’s happiness” is God’s primary goal. If it were, then everything you are saying would make perfect sense. Which, I think, is an excellent reason to reject the idea that “mankind’s happiness” is God’s primary goal at all. That is the very error that parents who raise spoiled children make.

God did not give mankind the dangerous gift of free will in order to make them happy - as if it were a toy to amuse themselves with.

Life in this world is not like a nursery with safety plugs in all the sockets and the sharp corners all rounded and padded.

It’s more like Delta Force training - we’re being prepared to co-reign with Christ over all of creation forever, to judge angels, to sit with God on the very throne Satan was cast out for trying to steal. Don’t expect it to be easy - don’t expect personal happiness to be what this is all about.

And don’t be surprised when most people fail to prevail. Personal happiness was the very thing that Satan pursued to his ruin.

God has a far higher goal than our personal happiness. He wants our submission. That’s what the free will is all about. Will we submit to Him? Only “a remnant” will (Romans 11:5) - but that remnant is who He is looking for.

And in the end, He gets everything He was after - those souls who would freely submit their own wills to Him.

And once God gets the submission He wants, then the remnant gets everything they want - love, joy, peace… in short, happiness.

And the devil gets nothing he wants - no throne, no kingdom, no power.

I hope this will make sense to you.

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Ok to be honest. I’m really confused by all this. I could go the easy way saying we can’t fully know God and leave it there, but I think scripture tells us to seek got with all our mind and intelligence. Romans 11:5 you said. Now God is apparently choosing the people who go to Heaven. Which obviously flies in the face of free will since we then don’t really have a choice. And the idea that I’m getting from all these responses. Is that it’s not about numbers, but more about the opportunity to choose for God. And that that’s the great victory. So God want’s free will people to rule with Him. In order to get free will people that choose the right thing you need to make a lot of people since there’s a big chance they choose wrongly. That’s what I’m getting from your answer. So God made all these people knowing that he would discard the majority into eternal suffering so he could have a few good people. That’s just cruel.

Hi Luna,
thanks again for all the responses.
I don’t understand the problem that when you continue to sin you can’t be redeemed. I continue to sin all the time. I want to know if it’s an option to go to hell, repent and accept Jesus and then go to heaven.
Can’t God just revive your body just as he has to do with all the body’s that have disappeared of Christians that have died ages ago? The rich man in Luke 16 seems to have a change of heart. I just don’t understand that for a wrong choice in a short lifespan. You need to be punished indefinitely. When you murder someone on earth you can get like a life sentence or maybe many life sentences. It’s still not as bad as eternity.

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I do apologize for any confusion, @dePloert. I did not intend Romans 11:5 to be a distraction. Yes, I see that it does use the phrase election of grace at the end of the verse, which some people take to mean that God unilaterally decides who He will and won’t save - a doctrine that I do not agree with any more than you do. But that phrase was not why I mentioned the verse - I was focusing on the concept of the remnant. But since it has caused distraction and confusion, perhaps we could just throw it out of the conversation, and try again.

I must admit that I too am a bit confused. Perhaps I could get some clarification from you. It appears that you are contending that since Satan takes more people to hell than God takes to heaven, that makes him the winner in this cosmic contest - do I have that part right?

So are you thinking that if God took more people to heaven than the devil took to hell, then God would have won? Is winning and losing all about who racks up the highest score of souls? Regardless of who ends up ruling the universe, or who ends up being cast out and forgotten forever?

I don’t know of any story where the villain is ever the winner if, in the final showdown, the hero defeats him. All the death and mayhem the villain may cause along the way only highlights his evil. It doesn’t make him the final victor if the hero overcomes him at the last - especially if that hero and the valiant few he has rescued ride away into “broad sunlit uplands” and a brilliant future that the villain has tried to prevent.

Or let me put it to you in a more personal way: which one would you rather spend eternity with - the winner or the loser? And if you would rather spend eternity with the winner, are you still thinking it’s the devil?

I’m just trying to clarify in my own mind how you’re thinking here - because I’ve never heard anyone express this view that you’ve proposed before.

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Hi Daniel,

Your questions in this discussion are so very important, and I can relate to the confusion you’re experiencing over the issues of freewill and redemption. I, too, grappled with these bedrock theological elements that are critical to understanding who God is, who we are, and what He has done for us in Christ. I offer some comments that I hope may help clarify our thinking in these areas.

Regarding freewill, it’s important to lay out precisely what that means as it applies to a human being. In my experience many people implicitly mean by “freewill” that everyone has free agency or autonomy (self-law), that is they are free to make decisions and take action without any internal or external influences. Of course we know that this isn’t the case: our family, friends, and life events, among many other things, influence how we think and act.

In spiritual matters, however, only God is autonomous and has true freewill. He is not influenced as we are by anyone or anything outside Himself. This attribute of God’s is one that allows us to trust Him completely with our lives. We tend, however, to anthropomorphize God, thinking that He is like us when He is not (see Isaiah 46; 55:8-9; Psalm 50:21), and this causes confusion about who is in control of things, especially salvation. So, let’s make a critical application here of freewill to salvation.

We make decisions every day about many earthly things - where to eat dinner, how much to put aside in savings each month, which car to buy, whom to marry, etc., and these decisions carry real weight and have lasting implications on our lives. In spiritual things, however, like choosing Jesus, we have no unfettered autonomy because of our fallen state (thanks Adam!). Our utter moral inability makes it impossible for us to choose God first before He acts on our minds. As we read in Romans 3:9-18:

“What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.

All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one….There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

And in Ephesians 2:1-3:

“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience - among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind.”

People, then, are clearly dead in sin (and what do dead things do? Nothing - they’re dead!), unless and until God first acts by regenerating the mind to receive His free gift of salvation. This gift is truly amazing because in it God exercises undeserved grace and mercy toward fallen humans:

“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it - the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe…. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:19-26)

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ - by grace you have been saved - and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”

(Ephesians 2:4-10)

Once someone is regenerated and justified before Him, the will becomes aligned with God’s and can act directly in seeking Him out. In other words, before one is justified before God, the will is bound in its fallen state to sin and is under Satan’s control (2 Tim. 2:25-26). After justification, the will is then bound to new life in God’s Spirit and has a new Master.

One other thing I find helpful is to understand that God is primarily concerned with His glory over mankind’s exercise of God-given will, as the Scriptures above indicate: God is the justifier of sinners by His mercy. To say that God saves in violation of man’s will is to take the credit from God for a life once dead then revived and responding to His will and mistakenly give it to man.

In His economy of redemption God chose to save some people for His glory and their joy despite the fact that all of us have sinned. He didn’t have to save anyone at all: He could’ve consigned us all to eternity in hell and been perfectly just in doing so. Although in our fallen thinking we may consider this cruel and unfair, God owes us nothing, not even anything that He is graciously pleased to give us. This does not conflict with His love for redeemed humanity because the fact that He loves us at all is incredible!

Let this truth really sink in and ask God to reveal it to you. In its light I believe you’ll begin to understand how wonderful it is that God chose to save anyone, that He set His designs on us from before time began. That in eternity past He set out the course of redemptive history before a single person was created. I find this truth to be pride-crushing and God-exalting because all the credit for my undeserved salvation belongs to God.

I hope this helps clarify the definition of freewill and the role it plays in salvation. I’ve included below two brief discussions with Pastor John Piper on this topic.

How might seeing freewill in this light change one’s perception of God? Of salvation?

Mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63E321_mFeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGwsHKzCZI

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Are you sure the rich man in Luke 16 had a change of heart? Instead of saying “I’m wrong and want to live for God” he said send Lazarus to pretty much serve him. Why would the rich man ask for the poor man who begged for food at his gate and obviously walked past many times and ask for him to come there? He wasn’t even talking directly to Lazarus but Abraham and still wanted to involve Lazarus.

It proved his thinking didn’t really change. And even after that, he told Abraham to send Lazarus to his family to warn them about this place he was in. He continually wanted to use Lazarus as a servant. It’s my belief that those who are in hell won’t have a change of heart. They don’t want to be in hell but that doesn’t mean they want to be with God either.

Now, as far as God bringing the dead back to a life of course we know he can do that. But it seems that your thoughts of the magnitude of sin seem that you may believe sin is smaller than it is. Remember Jesus said that for you to hate someone is like committing murder and if you lust after someone you have already committed adultery with them in your heart. So even our inner and private thoughts disqualify us to be in God’s presence. If this is that serious how much more serious is it to reject God who is infinite? This is a sin in itself. Since God is not finite the consequence of rejection of him makes sense that its not finite either. I don’t have all the answers and I won’t pretend like I do but I can point you to some materials for you to read and listen to so that you can get a different perspective.

I really like how Vince Vitale answers your question.



In this debate, William Lane Craig Argues that hell is self perpetuating.

God Bless :slight_smile: And I hope this helps some.

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Thanks again. I think you’re right about the rich man. That’s clever. I’ll look into all the recourses you provided :slight_smile: :slightly_smiling_face:

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