Distant star light?

(Timothy Loraditch) #1

How do we reconsile the question of star light traveling from so far away if the earth is only about six thousand years old and created befor the stars?

Why is the Universe so big if it is just us?
Why is the creation vs. evolution argument such a deterrent to the Christian faith?
(SeanO) #2

@tfloraditch It really depends on your view of Genesis 1 and the age of the earth. Not all Christians believe the universe is only 6K years old. Generally, the explanation I have heard about distant star light from young earth creationist is that God created the universe so that it appeared older than it actually was - since it was a miraculous event this would not have been a problem.

But if you take a different view of Genesis 1 and accept an old earth view then this question is not really problematic.

Here is a response from AiG:

You may find some of the threads / resources below helpful:

(Timothy Loraditch) #3

@SeanO I tend to think there is a problem with our understanding of time.

(SeanO) #4

@tfloraditch That’s interesting :slight_smile: In what way?

(Timothy Loraditch) #5

Our concept of time has changed significantly in the last 50 years. No one can really say what time actually is. It is not a tangible thing we can touch, but it is also not a mear concept that we all just agree upon like a yardstick. It is also affected by gravity and speed. Many scientists think that the past and the future always exist as does the present we just experience them differently.

We can assume our understanding of time will continue to develop. Until we have a better explanation I see this as a point of further examination.

(Matt Western) #6

@tfloraditch I’ve wondered about this question too - what is our concept of time (as compared to eternity like we had in a different discussion about ‘What will we do in Heaven’, which still has me pondering your final post thankyou for sharing)…

I was interested to learn that clocks tick faster in an aeroplane than on the ground - shown by the Hafele–Keating experiments? . What on earth is time at the end of the day? :slight_smile:

There are quite a few verses about ‘God stretching out the heavens’ http://230nsc1.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Nave-html/Faithpathh/stretch.html - if earth was made first like Genesis 1 states, why couldn’t the heavens be stretched out in all directions starting from earth’s perspective. seems pretty simple to me. :laughing:

I’m showing my utter lack of scientific knowledge here of course :grinning:: is the latest information that the cosmic background radiation (red shift?) show that earth appears to be at the centre of the universe?

creation.com has some articles about starlight and time, and some book resources such as Starlight and Time by Dr. Russell Humphreys, and Starlight, Time and the New Physics by Dr John Hartnett (both are physicists) - I’ve not read the books.

I’m still in the YEC camp at this stage and haven’t had a need to study further - I have read John Lennox book ‘7 days that divide the world’ and loved it. I’m still pondering it all - and I agree with Lennox suggestion at the end of the book that we should not divide over the issue.

The only thing that would worry me about the different viewpoint on Creation, is the question

’Does an old earth creation viewpoint compromise the Gospel?’.

  • The Gospel being that Jesus Christ is the perfect sacrificial lamb, and to which all the Old Testament sacrifices pointed to
  • the lamb that God killed in Eden to provide a covering for Adam and Eve’s sin was perfect (I presume this because the Israelite system required a perfect lamb that was unblemished)
  • if Old Earth Creationism has death before the Fall (millions of years of death/decay?), then why was the killing of a lamb a big deal in the garden of Eden. Just another single animal death would carry less or little significance and meaning?
  • the question being: Does it matter that so called ‘nephesh-chayyah’ animals died before the Fall of man??


sorry to go off topic a bit here.

(Timothy Loraditch) #7

@matthew.western I like the idea of God stretching out the heavens. I had not thought or read about that quite this way before. Perhaps what is so far away now was once much closer. I can see astrophysicists having problems with that but you know how that goes. Thank you that is a new piece to consider in the question.

I certainly agree with Lennox that these are not things to divide over, but by examining the hard questions like this I think we get closer to God. I have five children and when they were young we often played hide and seek in the house after dinner. Just as I enjoyed them trying to find me I know that God loves to see our search for Him in every area of the universe.

(Matt Western) #8

I also like considering the simple idea of how is God omnipresent (in all places at once), as compared to our concept of time.

From the perspective of an ant, my foot when standing on the ground is in two places at once. It takes time for an ant to travel the length of my foot. I doubt ants worry about how my foot is in two places at once. :slight_smile:

I had a friend of my father-in-law who was a surgeon and liked these types of conversations - one time we had a discussion about how one could try to conceptualize infinity. His way of describing it I have completely forgotten as it was years ago - and he was much cleverer than me so I didn’t understand all of what he was saying at the time. This conversation made me wonder over the years, is God infinite, or is God infinite from our perspective and is the size of the Universe.

Either way, I’m so glad He loves his Creation and reached out to us through Jesus his Son. If you start with thoughts of trying to conceptualize infinity, and omnipresence and the size of the universe, then you move towards his Love - suddenly you are quite moved with emotion when you realize the size of his Love.

Might be time to look at the stars tonight in worship. :thinking:

(Cameron Kufner) #9

Great question. Personally, I don’t believe that the Earth, nor our Universe, is only 6K years old. I recommend listening to Hugh Ross, a Christian, who is an astrophysicist. He makes really good points on the age of the universe and how we can know the exact age of the universe without any problem. He says that the universe is billions of years old, and the evidence I’ve personally seen points towards that view. We can reconcile scripture with science. God gave us two amazing books. The Holy Bible and the book of nature.

I believe in the gap theory. As far as if the days of creation were 24 hour days or not, we have to leave that in the hands of God. It could have been, but also remember that God created time and space and whether creation was on a time scale of 24 hours or not is something that I think we will find out until the next life in Heaven.

Hope this helps.

(Matt Western) #10

Thanks Cameron, that’s great thankyou.

Lennox is Day-Age, you are Gap Theory, I’ve grown up with YEC (although I don’t get as excited about it being the only possibility like a lot in the YEC camp, having learnt there are actually 8 positions on Genesis).

With Gap Theory, there is a gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 I think? Does this position hold a literal 24 hour earth days for the Genesis account?

If so, perhaps my question should be re-worded:
‘Does a Creationist position that includes pre-Fall death of animals compromise the Gospel?’

I think the theBibleProject.com guys are Gap theory, and describe ‘wild and waste’ from the Hebrew ‘Tohu wa-bohu’ (i think they pronounce it tohu va vohu??) As in ‘the earth was void and without form’ is what some of our english translations have.

hehe. I love just trying to say ‘tohu va vohu’ in a normal conversation. :wink:

(Timothy Loraditch) #11

@CamKufner @matthew.western The problem I have with the gap theory is that it doesn’t tell me anything new about God. It doesn’t bring me closer to Him. At least it hasn’t to this point. Typically when I struggle with a biblical concept the answer reveals something new about God that I didn’t know.

Frequently someone will share a commentators explanation that suggests a different context of uses semantics to explain and it just makes me think, ok maybe. Then there is a revelation that reveals the heart of God in a new way and I feel God’s excitement at my getting to where He wanted me. Gap theory just doesn’t do that for me.

What I am saying is that I can’t say it is wrong, just that I am still looking.