Dream PodCast / debate / discussion

(Arthur Tepichin) #1

What are people’s dream match ups?

I would love to see either Ravi Zacharias, Abdu Murray or Vince Vitale discuss the existence of God with Joe Rogan. I think it would reach a new and large audience.

(SeanO) #2

@Tepichin Right now I would have to say it is a tie between Jordan Peterson with Ravi/Os Guiness/Tim Keller or Bill Nye with Hugh Ross/John Lennox.

(Arthur Tepichin) #3

J Peterson/Ravi Z!!! What a great one!

(christopher van zyl) #4

Ben Shapiro and Ravi.

Jordan Peterson and Ravi

Jordan Peterson and Lennox.

Joe Rogan and Michael ramsden

Sam Harris and Lennox

(Arthur Tepichin) #5

All good ones! I wonder if Joe Rogan would be willing to test his ideas against M Ramsden because that would be a great one.

(Isaiah J. Armstrong) #6

what do you think of this?

(SeanO) #7

@O_wretched_man So, to understand Peterson you must understand that he does not believe in a supernatural God who created the world or that Jesus bodily rose from the dead. When he says that Jesus’ spirit lives on today, what he means is that Jesus’ ‘manner of being’ or ‘way of life’ is still observed. He says that in order to correct an error in your thinking some part of you has to die and that is how the ‘logos’ tears you down and builds you up again - that is his view of what it means to be resurrected with Christ - to die to your errors and live in accordance with reality.

So, Peterson uses words like ‘logos’ and ‘resurrection’ and reinterprets them in light of a very simple framework which says that to live a good life we must die to the lies and errors within us and live in accordance with reality. That reality may not be the same for all of us because our frame of reference and experiences are different, but we must do the best we can to live according to what we know to be true.

(christopher van zyl) #8

@O_wretched_man and @SeanO, I was reading fools talk and came across something that Os calls the dilemma pole and the diversion pole. It immediately made me think of Jordan Peterson saying he acts “as if God exists”. I’m not sure if this has been posted before so I’ll share the quotes.

“The dilemma pole expresses the logic of the fact that the more consistent people are to their own view of reality, the less close they are to God’s reality and the more likely they are to feel their dilemma.”
“The diversion pole expresses the fact that the less consistent people are to their own view of reality, the closer they are to God’s reality, so the more they must find a diversion.”

Then he says this, which to me expresses Peterson and his claim perfectly:

“Expressed like that, it is obvious that most people would prefer to be closer to the inconsistentcy but comfort of the diversion pole, rather than to the courage and consistency but discomfort of the dilemma pole. In other words, most would prefer to live AS IF God were there, with all the benefits that makes possible, even though they deny God in both theory and practice.”

That said, I don’t want to mischaracterise Peterson, but I just thought that so far this has been a good example of how he thinks and what exactly he means by the statement ‘as if God exists’.
What he says may be immediately true, but at some point it won’t be finally true, and therefore it won’t be finally adequate, which will just lead to more diversions.

Hope this wasn’t too off topic.

(SeanO) #9

@c3vanzyl Great point! That does sound a lot like what Peterson is saying and I have heard others say. They recognize the benefits of living as if there is a loving and good God, but they do not actually believe, so they simply live in what is, for them, a comforting unreality. Which is unfortunate, since God is good and loving and real!

(Arthur Tepichin) #10

Good stuff!

(christopher van zyl) #11

Love this phrase!

(David Cieszynski) #12

Tim Keller & Michael Ramsden

(Isaiah J. Armstrong) #13

Those are great quotes! I just recently bought a copy of Fool’s Talk and I can’t wait to read it!

(christopher van zyl) #14

I’ve been seeing a lot of suggestions for the book, that’s why I went and picked up a copy too! I am not sorry! It is awesome :blush: hope you enjoy it!