Healing while Jesus on Earth

(Carson Weitnauer) #22

Hi friends,

I don’t understand this area very well. And I think there is diversity in how God works.

Ultimately, it is a relational process. Prayer stands in contrast to magic, where a certain scroll or formulas can compel spiritual powers to provide a desired result. Rather, when we seek God in prayer, we are talking with a loving heavenly Father.

That said, I am at a gathering of leaders who are committed to prayer this week. I have heard many stories of miracles taking place from them. For instance, a girl who had a new eardrum provided for her. A man who had back surgery scheduled, but after a prayer meeting, his back was healed and the surgery was canceled.

Hearing these stories from trusted leaders, I am encouraged that God continues to supernaturally heal people today.

(Glen Gibson) #23

Tim, thank you for asking a very legitimate question. Most, if not all of us, have experienced the death of a loved one, many of them dying after and while so many people prayed for healing.

A couple of years ago my father–who is in a great deal of pain for which there is no cure or treatment–said that he was ready to die. I told him not to talk like that and tried to encourage him. But then I read a book (I don’t remember the name of it) about caring for the terminally ill and people in chronic acute pain. It said not to silence them when they talked about death, because it is part of a healing process for them spiritually. It then went on to say something that I should have known already, something that my father apparently already knew:

Healing always comes for those who are in Christ! Sometimes on this Earth, sometimes in Heaven and what will be the New Creation. Now that I understand that, I can listen to my father more carefully. He believes in a world where he will be without pain (Revelation 21:4). It is as real to him today as it will be for him when he is healed. Now when I pray for my father to be healed, I do so 100% believing that he will be, and I find peace in trusting God with the timing.

Mary and Nabeel are not dead. They are more alive than we are. And they are healed.

I hope that helps.

(Tim Ramey) #24

Glen you are absolutely right and I cry out the praises to our Lord with you.

I’m not trying to stomp until I get my way so please understand that I’m not insisting that someone need agree with me. It’s not the “lack” of miracles that concern me, it’s the dynamics of the early church that seems so foreign to me today. Are we intended to live lives as Christians that contains more of the fullness of the Spirit that we seem to lack today? The early church was full of problems with perverted sexuality, gnosticism, etc but the Spirit of love, looking to the needs of others, miracles, etc seemed much more prevalent. Why and should we have more of the positive dynamics of the early church?

Carson, you too had every word spot on. It’s just this lingering question that I’ve raised that I’m trying to deal with. I think that I am just an odd duck that has so many questions that no one else can identify with!

(Carson Weitnauer) #25

Hi Tim,

I think it is good for us to long for a more complete obedience to God - both in our own lives and for our brothers and sisters in Christ. That is a desire that is modeled for us in Scripture. To share some verses you know very well from Philippians 3:

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

At the same time, I don’t think the Scriptures make any link between greater obedience and more healings. Jesus healed both faithful disciples, like Lazarus, and those who were more surprising, like the Samaritan lepers (Luke 17:11-19).

(Willem Spaans) #26

I think the why has to do with the when! When Jesus walked this earth we did not have the benefit of His full revelation! We do have that now. When Jesus was asked for a sign He pointed to Himself (John 2:18 - ). We have no need for a further revelation! “Trust and obey for there is no other way to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey” is a dated song but still so true!

(Tim Ramey) #27

What I appreciate in Connect is the realization that we all have such diverse thrusts but that we all have Jesus as our aim.

Having said that, it appears that I have a history of seeing things different in varying degrees than others. My intention is not to be disagreeable but be straightforward without ever offending.

Thus, here I am again, agreeing with you but not in context of the question. Jesus is te full revelation but my question wonders if, rather than appropriating that revelation in the church that we maybe squander all that He is and called us to be.

When Jesus walked the earth, we did not have the full revelation of that we do but there are people throughout this world that still have no idea of that revelation, many of who live as my neighbor in the west.

And @CarsonWeitnauer, I wasn’t intending on responding to your post but was going to let it go but since I’m responding to @Willem_Spaans, I thought I’d just add a note. I’m not sure how I communicated obedience as the component in the lack of miracles. I don’t think that there is a link to more of one results in more of the other. I’m sorry to give you that dynamic. Rather, I’m just saying that as we draw closer to Jesus, is there more of Himself that He desires to show us of Himself for His glory? I echo Philippians 3 with you. I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it but forgetting what’s behind , I press forward towards the goal for the prize of the upward call in Christ Jesus. The scripture is exactly the heart of my question.

(Junior Chacko.V ) #28

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(Andrea L) #29

I understand your eagerness to get answers for your “why”. I had been doing the same for more than 10 years. Looking for answers from God why our first son died. What was the purpose of it? It was a very difficult journey, I must admit. One of the key things I understood was that for whatever reason (God knows it why) it must have been very important for me (or for us?) to learn to love and trust God despite he died. It took longer but the roots of faith get much deeper I believe.
God gave me piece after piece, slowly building me up. What I thought to be the last answer was a preaching at my then church, about that there might things “behind the curtain” we cannot know about, such as why it took Daniel 21 days to get his answer (Dan 10:12-13 “Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.”)
Another scripture from the Book of Daniel which I think shows that the end God makes His choices, He is able but acts according to His own will is in chapter 3, where Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego said: “If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.”
Another story that I have been thinking still a lot about concerning healing is in John 5. Jesus healed a man at the pool of Bethesda. One. There were many. Why just one? John 5:16 says “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.” Would have it matter if He had healed a dozen or more? It was sabbath anyway. But the Bible talks about only one He healed.

The reason why I would like to reflect on what you said “Paul seemed fed up with a woman who could foretell things so he casts out that spirit in her.” is that it relates to a crucial point in my journey about the meaning of our son’s death.
I believe there was more in casting the spirit out of the girl than being fed up with it. Act 16:17-18 " The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour." The Amplified version says: “Then Paul, being greatly annoyed and worn out…”. What I think the most interesting in this story is that the girl was telling the truth. They were the servants of the most high God. So why was it such a problem, that they finally casted the evil spirit out? There might be many fitting answers to this question, but regarding my journey it meant to me that even the truth revealed at a wrong time can destroy or even kill. We know that God would never ever want to hurt us but would like to lead us to all truth, so the question comes up, why does it matter when we learn about things?
What I recognized during my long journey of finding answers for my “why” question was that God was always very careful never to reveal me more than I was able to handle that time. Never ever. And when I heard that preaching, it helped me to accept that I might never get to know the answer here on Earth - I’ll get that when I’ll be with Him. And for almost two years I was sure that was my final answer, I found absolute peace with it. I got it when I was able to cope with it, not earlier (still wasn’t easy but I was able to handle it). And then unexpectedly, when once I was talking about this experience, how important it is to be ready for the truth I got my final answer: there is no need for an answer. Getting this at the beginning or even at an earlier point of my journey would have killed me. Is it important to seek the truth? Yes, absolutely. But it is also important to let God lead us on our journey, so we can be sure we are safe.

I just would encourage you, as others did here - keep seeking the Lord, put your trust in Him, and let Him lead you on your journey.

Abortion, Noah and the Flood
(Josh) #30

I strongly believe that faith is made much harder then it needs to be. We live by faith everyday, sitting down is an act of faith or waking or sleeping. Faith is simply expecting the charter of something or someone to act according to it’s nature. I think God have us simple truths on Earth so that we may understand things better. If we get to know Gods carecter better then faith in him not only becomes easier it is more effective.

(SeanO) #31

@Joshgould I liked what you said about faith being trust that something will act according to its nature. With God I think that has to do with trusting in His goodness. What do you mean by more effective? Is that in reference to healing?

(Josh) #32

I just mean that it would be more effective in that you would not be asking for something that God won’t act on and in when you ask for something such as healing that he is going to do what is best for you witch May not always be heading. just as a good earthly father will do how much more does or heavenly father know and therefore do

(Josh) #33

Sorry I was under a time constraint last time I went to answer this and ended up giving a very generic answer all I really wanted to say was that I think we tend to look at healing in our limited scope of time and not through the eternal. If we as Christians can make an admittedly large shift in the way we look at things then we I think would tend to lean more heavily on faith in God carecter then In our own understanding and i think that is why we think there is a disconnect between healing in biblical times and now

(SeanO) #34

@Joshgould That is a good point. Ultimately we will all be made completely whole in the new creation whether we are healed in this life or not - having an eternal perspective is important when facing such difficulties indeed.

(Tim Ramey) #35

Andrea, I’m sorry to take so long to respond to your heartfelt post. I’m so very sorry that you lost your son.I cannot imagine how difficult that would be. Your reply had much wisdom interwoven in it. Thanks so much.

The issue of healing or casting out demons or the gifts is really a reflection on us as Christians. I’m not implying condemnation but could it be that the Lord wants us to enter into more that we are missing out on because that is not how we are used to it being done? The impetus for the topic wasn’t so much for an explanation but an examination. Would the Lord want us to enter into more as we would learn from each other?

As we respond, could there be a crescendo of light that would take us by surprise? I know that the Lord is anxious to revel His truth to us but would the way He would wish to do so be in fellowship as we look at was Jesus might have anew for us? The “why” is it not the same was asking if it could be that we are not expecting what He may have for us? Maybe there is nothing to it but I opened it up for exploration.