Honoring mother and father

hi all
I remember the passage in Mathew where it says that Jesus puts a sword between mother and father, sister and brother. Can anyone tell me what Jesus actually meant, because there is supposed to be a passage where it talks about honouring our mother and father, and I’m not sure to what extent Jesus means when he says that there will be any conflict between members of His own household.

Please help
Thanks
Vili

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Hello @AlphaOmega,

The passage in question (quoted below) is from Matthew 10. If you have not had a chance, I would recommend reading the chapter in its entirety to help provide further insights.

Matthew 10:34-36 NASB
[34] "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. [35] For I came to set A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; [36] and a MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Prior to this passage, Jesus is sending out his disciples to begin preaching and working miracles (vv1-15). He explains the high cost of disciple, that there would be persecution (vv16-18), even from one’s own family (vv21, 22). But he also encourages them that they will be provided for (vv19-20), that God is watching over them and cares greatly for them (vv26-31).

In places today where followers of Christ are persecuted and betrayed by their own families, this idea of enmity between family members because of Christ may be better understood. The context is very important to know that the enmity is not caused by the believer, but by the unbeliever. The disciple of Christ is not given authority or guidance by Christ to dishonor their family, though obedience to Christ–King of Kings–may be seen as dishonor. If the Christian suffers at the hand of his or her family, it ought to be by the family’s doing, not the believer. The believer should be as innocent as a dove (v16).

Honoring father and mother, in obedience to God’s expectations and living as a disciple of Christ, even if the parents are unbelieving, is the highest honor. I hope you have had time to read through the chapter and share further what it impresses on your heart.

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thanks @andrew.bulin

The reason why I ask this is because I am caught up in a similar situation, where basically because of Christ I have been seen to dishonor the family, and I am expected to apologise. What advice would you recommend for this situation? How can I know that God will provide for me even when I suffer?

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I feel I have been through similar questions while reading the bible. It might be best here to just Trust God and wait. Some things may only get clearer later. One thing important I think you should keep in mind is are your parents for the gospel? And if they are this also means they should be on your side too. Just as we are. You should also keep in mind most of our more important long lasting relationships will most likely require more work and sacrifice then others that may not be as long lasting. Remember on the Cross what Jesus said to Mary =D. I hope this helps.

Hello, Vili! Wonderful to ‘see’ you again. :slight_smile: Sounds like you’re in a tough spot…

I very much appreciate what @andrew.bulin has written…

Any advice I would give would be predicated upon what they want you to actually apologise for. You mentioned it was ‘because of Christ’. Is it for taking on the name of Christ (i.e. becoming a Christian) or is it for actions you have subsequently done in the name of Christ?

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Hey @AlphaOmega,

This is an important heart-matter, that without being in your shoes, and not having all the details and history, it would be really hard for anyone to honestly tell you prescriptively what to do. And I’d have to assume case-by-case may call for different actions.

Personally I would have to look within my heart and ask myself what apologizing in the specific situation meant. For a random made-up example: If I could not participate in giving food and prayers to family or community idol, I could perhaps humbly apologize specifically if I somehow made my parents feel disrespected, as that is not the intention at all. I would not want my parents to ever feel slighted and would want to seek their understanding and mercy. In the same instance, I could also not apologize for believing in Christ if that’s what was expected.

The act of the apology is deeply personal, and some people have difficulty. For me, I deeply feel pained if I cause anyone frustration or pain. I would be sincere in that my apology would be that the situation caused them discomfort. I would rather they were free and had peace in Christ as I have. I would truly feel sorrow and weep for them. However, I would not apologize or feel shame for my commitment to Christ, my relationship with Him, and my dedication to His will above all else.

As delicate as the situation is, I will not pretend to even come close to helping you. But I hope it helps with your context in some way. I’ll pray for the Holy Spirit to give you courage, strength and healing words to help your relationship with your family. Your attitude of seeking peace while also faithful dedication could be the seed planted that shows them you love them greatly, and at the same time truly believe in this Christ, even if it meant risk to home security.

Stay strong and diligent.

1 Timothy 4:12-16 NASB
[12] Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe. [13] Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. [14] Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. [15] Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all. [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

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Good morning, today may be a difficult day with the strain in your relationships. With time my Roman Catholic family saw I was not changing my mind and would stay a born again believer “fundamentalist” if you will. They saw a lasting change they could not deny, one brother said I dont care what he believes he is happier than he ever was. Knowing your situation I prayed for you today. I prayed today will be filled with love.
Mike

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Hi all
Earlier this month got kicked out of YWAM KC because I stated that what they preached was a false gospel, as well as other reasons. Admittedly whilst what I said/ questioned was not with gentleness and respect, it still has merit. At the time my reason for discerning the gospel presentation was through Paul Washer’s Critique of the American Gospel (similar to ours) and His presentation, which has Biblical support. Now after coming out of YWAM, I realise that Romans was a good criteria for seeing a good gospel presentation. And I realise now that I’m back on Square one. I thought YWAM (or at least YWAM KC) was biblical, and I’m realising that this might not be the case.

Paul Washer’s Gospel Presentation: http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/the-gospel

Paul Washer’s Critique (Regeneration vs. Decisionism):

YWAM KC’s Presentation
Five Point Gospel Presentation.pdf (1.3 MB)

I’m currently back in PNG. Mum (at the time when she first heard me getting kicked out, and the reason as to my post about persecution) was ashamed of me. Whilst she now understands that YWAM had rolled us over, she wishes to support me in Ministry, but to be honest I don’t think she’ll have a part to play, not with the current situation we have right now.

Right now, I’ve been going through a tough period. I’m back home in PNG and I’m trying to get in preparation for the British Army. I’m also now officially doing my own Bible Study, and have decided to start my own blog in 2020 sharing my experiences, and hopefully teaching others as well (perhaps God will see this faithfulness and reward it). Right now, I’m in a place where I don’t have a biblical church, and the one that I attend has no expository preaching, but Mum insists that I go for the sake of gaining perspective (I honestly don’t wanna go back, because I’m sick and tired of this stupid preacher that thinks he can talk about his own life and never anything to do with the Word of God). As I write this, I’m just depressed. I’m literally stuck in a situation where I can’t do anything.

In regards to YWAM, I’ve sent Apologia Studios (specifically their channel Cultish) to test the lectures that I’ve gained, and just to see what they can make of that.

But over time, that’s changed. During a time of prayer, I felt God give me the desire to head to Apologia Church as a means to connect to ministry. I’ve noticed things where Cultish plans to talk about YWAM and have good discussions about it, and it seems I may have a part to play in it the way events have been happening, so I’ve decided that whilst Cultish prepares, I’ll be testing the lectures myself in hopes that I may be a part of the discussion whilst doing my own study, in hopes that YWAM is actually humble to change itself.

But I’m not sure if this desire is actually from Him or not, or if the events are actually confirmations here. I’m still going to try though. Does anybody have any thoughts towards this?

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Hey @AlphaOmega,

I really appreciate those resources and your openness to share what happened.

The video of Paul Washer was really good and I’ve watched it in its entirety. I made quite a few notes as well, and it has encouraged me in some of my own ministry needs and concerns. I’ve also read the “Five Point” Gospel presentation document. I can see where there are some parallels in the same document to Washer’s warnings about how some perform the traditional “alter calls.” However, I’m curious how you interpret each point and if you have been able to disprove them with the Bible in such a way as to claim them unbiblical.

Referencing the video, time 42:38, can you talk through how you see the document as being entirely unbiblical, and try to reference specifics?

Thanks!

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Hi @andrew.bulin

  • Apologies for the late response

My interpretation of the Five Point Gospel
The way I see this gospel conveying the message is that in the beginning we were all made for perfect relationship with God, but that we broke that relationship when we decided to become “the God of our own lives”, and that’s why things are broken today. However, God still wanted us to have this relationship so that we can restore what was lost, that being the intimacy we had with him, and that humanity’s search for pleasure in sin is actually something that can be found only in God, and that all we have to do is choose to receive God, and get away from our sin, so that we can receive this relationship with God.

Absence of God’s holiness and law: However, there are a few problems to this. None of this text mentions that God is a righteous God (Psalm 7:11-12) and that our sin is an abomination (Gal 3:10). It merely suggests that God can’t stand sin, but doesn’t go into the details of God’s justice, that we are actually condemned before God (Romans 3:23)

Absence of our Sinful nature:
This gospel assumes that we separated from God because we wanted to pursue our own desires (which is true) but it also assumes that every human heart has a longing, or desire that can ONLY be filled if we have a relationship with God (and this, according to the document, is why Christ died for our sins, so that we may have this relationship). However, if we look at Romans 2:3-5 & 3:11-18, we understand that everyone (by their VERY nature) is a rebel before God that wants absolutely nothing to do with him.

Whilst some of them (the YWAMers) might actually agree with me that God is holy and righteous, that we are indeed sinners that need to be saved, the fact that they preach this message without the factors that this gospel misses on, can lead to false conversions. Paul explains how we basically need the law in order to understand that our sinful nature is wicked (Romans 7:7-14) so that, through God’s regenerative work, we can repent.