Hi all! I’ve been struggling a lot with trying to reconcile the context of Adam and Eve and their children (farming, the usage of harps by Jubal, and iron usage) with the age of the first humans, who appeared over 100,000 years ago. The problem is, none of these human advancements were around 50,000-100,000 years ago, which makes it very difficult to put Adam and Eve that far back. In addition to this, God tells Eve that the pain of child birth will be multiplied, but this already happened hundreds of thousands of years ago, so it makes it very difficult to place them merely 12,000 years ago as well. Any comments or things to consider would be very much appreciated. God bless.
If Adam and Eve were the first couple around 70,000-100,000 years ago, what are we to make of the activities they did?
Are you trying to reconcile ‘apes to men’ evolutionary timelines? Genesis states that God created Adam out of dust - not from apes.
Another question to ponder which I’ve asked a theistic evolutionist.
If animals are not moral beings; and humans are (and are answerable before God for their choices): at what point in the evolution of ‘apes to man’ timeline did man get a soul. The answer I got from the theistic evolution gentleman was ‘God did it’.
I have read John Lennox book ‘7 days that divide the world’ and enjoyed that. I think Lennox is a ‘day-age’ viewpoint but believes that humanity was a special creation.
The young earth creationist position looks at genealogy record in the Bible and suggest that Adam was only 6000 years or so ago. (https://creation.com/6000-years)
Great question - I’m interested in what others have to say too.
Also @SeanO shared the various views on timelines in this neat little graph of the 8 different views here (I was brought up a literal 6 day creation viewpoint just for the record, and haven’t quite changed my views just yet )
Hello Matthew, I’m actually very skeptical of evolution both scientifically and theologically. I would say my stance is a form of progressive creationism. I accept the age of the earth and the idea of the flood being regional. The only problem I’ve faced is that the activities of Adam and Eve began to take place around 12,000 years ago, but multiple dating methods show traces of culture over 70,000 years ago. I have considered that maybe the dates are wrong, but I don’t want to reject scientific findings. I’m unsure what to do with this data. Thank you for your help!
don’t worry - I’m a skeptical young earth creationist, but accept there are other views of Genesis by Christians who love God and believe equally as strongly as me the Bible is completely inspired and without error. It’s good to be skeptical and think carefully for oneself. I think that adaptation to an environment makes sense (loss of information in genetic record), but I can’t accept brand new species (lower life forms into higher life forms with brand new information. This new genetic information must have been inputted by God).
I do have a big problem with ‘apes to man’.
Progressive creationism (just by looking at Wikipedia) is also I think called ‘day-age’ as John Lennox would hold to. I’m a big fan of all Lennox books and am pretty close to agreeing with his viewpoints.
Would you like to link to some resources for people to comment on?
I completely agree with your point concerning adaptation- I think adaptation can only be fixed to a certain extent, but I am willing to admit that I don’t know enough about the science to make a proper conclusion. I do the best I can though when evaluating it! and sure, that would be very helpful! Thank you again.
Sorry: to clarify. Do you have any specific articles or resources you are reading? Post a link to them here and that way it will help the discussion.
Lennox, a progressive creationist, rejects ‘apes to men’ view point here.
Oh by the way a warm welcome to the community!! - I didn’t realize you’ve recently joined… I know you’ll find everyone here very warm and caring and genuinely wanting to learn more about God and grow their faith.
Hi Andrew @Xiiiandreww
Let me add my welcome to Matt’s (@matthew.western).
I’ve been having exactly the same question as you recently and have nothing really concrete to add to the question unfortunately. I’m with you and Matt and find evolution difficult reconcile both scientifically and theologically… but I must say mostly theologically, because I’m not a scientist and don’t really have a full in depth knowledge of the facts of the matter.
It seems to me that there are a lot of ‘facts’ out there of which I have heard many but can corroborate none, because I have not done the investigation myself. I am one who likes to see evidence in front of me, you see.
Can I add a question here… how good is our dating system? I have often wondered if our dating system was based on the theory of the necessity of everything taking a long time for evolution to happen… therefore we ascribe periods of time to how long we think things should take rather than actually having a basis for it in scientific terms. I mean… we’ve been dating things for, say, 100 years and seem to be very emphatic about extrapolating our knowledge out to thousands and millions and billions of years.
I’m a builder… standing where I am I could tell you pretty accurately the distance between two points that are close to me. But the further away the distance, the less accurate I will be… up to the point where it will just be a wild guess.
Is dating like this? Is there someone in the community here who is actually in the business of this sort of thing who could tell us?
Thanks for the question Andrew. Sorry I can’t help… I may have must made matters worse.
I think your assessment of the nature of the dating is spot on! I do think it is very difficult to find a completely accurate date, as many presuppositions come into play as well as assumptions. This could very well be the case! There have been a fair share of wild dates, and while I’m uncertain that they justify being suspicious of the entire carbon dating system, it demonstrates that the dates are not infallible. Thank you for helping me consider that!
No problem at all Andrew. Glad to be helpful
Even when I know nothing.
Good question! Something to consider is to not take their historical context as a literal example. That is, the story of adam and eve was written to relate to that culture of that particular time to understand the message of a much earlier historical message between the first man and woman. So it is a figurative story of a much earlier time. I hope that helps!