Is there a set of proofs or questions that can determine true Christian belief filtering out pagan beliefs that have entered most Christian religions?

So now that we’ve determined that Christianity is the one true worldview how do we determine which religion Maintains the biblical purity, is there a set of proofs or questions that can determine true Christian belief filtering out pagan beliefs that have entered most Christian religions?

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Hi @Jlraney1,

That’s a great question!

I think the most important starting point is the Bible - for us to be familiar with what it says.

In addition, I think we can also lean on the value of the creeds. The Apostles and Nicene Creeds are incredibly helpful to give us an understanding of how to read the Bible well.

Depending on your denomination, the denomination’s theological statements can also help guide us.

Internationally, I have found the Lausanne Movement to have provided one of the most widely accepted and respected set of statements. For instance:



You might also find something like The Gospel Coalition’s Foundation Documents to be a helpful orientation: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/about/foundation-documents/

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Welcome @Jlraney1

Can you give me an example of pagan beliefs that have entered Christian religions? I just want to be sure I’m on track with what you are asking.

We ask a lot of clarifying questions on RZIMConnect, because it can be challenge to dialog without being face to face. So, please be patient with us.

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The state of the dead. The fact that when I person dies they sleep in the grave until Christ coming. Just as Christ slept in the grave until he was resurrected so we as believers in Christ sleep in the grave until Christ comes and resurrects us and then those who remain are caught up in the air.
1Thes. 4 Paul is comparing Christs death (sleep) and resurrection with the believers sleep and resurrection, that they sleep in the grave until the day of their resurrection. Although Martin Luther had excepted that the dead, sleep until Christ coming (The correct state of the dead) it was excepted late in his life and wasn’t spread through his church well enough to take hold.
Too many churches use this incorrect doctrine to preach the rapture an even more deceptive incorrect doctrine. So if we take up the correct state of the dead, that removes the incorrect doctrine of burning in hell forever, the incorrect doctrine of going to heaven or going to hell when you die, and the incorrect doctrine of the rapture, all of these based off of one pagan idea of the immortality of the soul.
The immortality of the soul comes from the pagan philosophers.
Are you familiar with the book
The Fire That Consumes, by Edward Fudge?

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Honestly these are questions I’m not really familiar with.

Is your ultimate point that there is no hell? It feels like you’re hanging a pretty big hat on the interpretation of one verse, but admittedly I’m out of my depth on this. Also, what information do you have that qualifies these things you’re referencing as pagan. Beliefs can have commonalities that do not necessarily have a direct link of influence.

It’s not a book I’ve heard of. Can you outline some of the key points of the book?

Does anyone else have some knowledge on his questions?

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Just because: (1) The Bible is the true and accurate word of God, and (2) the God of the bible is the one true and living God. And given that (3) Jesus is God, doesn’t mean that (4) what gets pitched as “Christianity” is the one true worldview.

I would wonder which of the foregoing statements you agree with or disagree with?
I think you agree with number 4. but I can’t tell if you personally believe statements 1,2 and 3.
Could you give some clarity regarding what you do or don’t believe about those statements so I can understand better where you’re coming from?

Tim

Could you resend your last email, my account deleted it for some reason

Okay. In connection with:

I would have the following questions to get a feel for where you’re coming from:

Just because: (1) The Bible is the true and accurate word of God, and (2) the God of the bible is the one true and living God. And given that (3) Jesus is God, doesn’t mean that (4) what gets pitched as “Christianity” is the one true worldview.
I would wonder which of the foregoing statements you agree with or disagree with
I think you agree with number 4. but I can’t tell if you personally believe statements 1,2 and 3.
Could you give some clarity regarding what you do or don’t believe about those statements so I can understand better where you’re coming from?

Tim

1 yes I Believe that the Scriptures are the true and accurate Word of God.

2 yes I believe that the God of the Bible is the one and only true and living God.

3 yes I believe that Jesus is God, the Christ, the Creator and Redeemer of all things.

4 Yes I believe that what is being shown as the Christian worldview isn’t necessarily the true Christian worldview and that it doesn’t accurately depict God, Jesus, or the Spirt.

And that is why so many people chose to worship the Creature instead of the Creator. Because most of us Christians don’t depict the character of Christ. Most people see only Gods love, and therefore anything is
allowed “cheap grace”, or all they see is his Judgment and they run from him to something they can attain to, righteous by works, most other religions.

Don’t miss understand me I’m not implying that your organization is to blame, I believe that we all are to blame, because we don’t seek Christ as we should! All too often we get an understanding of God and we want
to share him with others before we have attained a relationship with him and strive to do his will instead of our own.

A. After reading through most of the Lausanne Movement, it looks as though I could agree with these. As long as all parties keep a superficial understanding of these the Group should have a working relationship. But don’t we by nature seek
to define the fundamentals?

B. I have always emphasized that the better our understanding and clarity of the objective gospel (you in Christ), the deeper and more meaningful will be our subjective experience (Christ in you), or our relationship with Christ through
the Holy Spirt. So the greater our depth with our fundamentals the deeper and more fulfilling our relationship with Christ.

C. So sooner or later defining some of the basic like; 1. The nature of sin, 2. The nature of Christ, 3. The nature of death, and only after a correct understanding of these, can we come to a correct understanding of the Atonement.

D. Because of this, I bring up the Question of pagan ideas within Christian believes. If one of these three natures are tainted it would pollute or corrupt my relationship with Christ. Or I could end up with a relationship with the fallen
one, the angel of light 2Cor 11:14.

Could you agree with A .B, C, or D?

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Thank you for sharing your concerns.
For clarity, I’m not affiliated with RZIM. (They just seem to be good Christian folks who do their homework and have got a lot of good resources) I signed up on this forum a little more than a week ago and I’ve interacted with other Christians, read several testimonies and taken a stab at contributing where people have asked questions. That being said, I don’t know that much about the Lausanne Movement, although I did watch their video and got the basic gist of it.

So as for A, B, C, or D. My relationship with Christ is is based on his payment for my sins and the hope he gives both in the eternal life to come, and as he works all things together for my good. Any pollutions and corruptions in my life prior to accepting his payment for my sin have been paid for.
My sins are washed. I also reckon any sins after my salvation to be under that same blood. I’m not knowingly involved in any pagan traditions or false doctrine. I’m pretty well versed in the Bible, so if you have a doctrine you’d like me to consider, I’d be willing to take a look at it.

My question would be, what things specifically would you point to among Christians or doctrine that you think is “off”?

You seem to want to propose a doctrine, or series of doctrines which you’ve not yet spelled out clearly. You seem to believe you hold a correct understanding of the nature of sin, of Christ , and of death whereas you seem to think most Christians are influenced with pagan ideas that have polluted the faith and our relationship with Christ.

So I would ask that you’d please spell them out clearly so I can check them out.

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Hi @Jlraney1,

I think the Lausanne Covenant speaks to your concerns. For instance:

We affirm that there is only one Saviour and only one gospel, although there is a wide diversity of evangelistic approaches. We recognize that everyone has some knowledge of God through his general revelation in nature. But we deny that this can save, for people suppress the truth by their unrighteousness. We also reject as derogatory to Christ and the gospel every kind of syncretism and dialogue which implies that Christ speaks equally through all religions and ideologies. Jesus Christ, being himself the only God-Man, who gave himself as the only ransom for sinners, is the only mediator between God and people. There is no other name by which we must be saved. All men and women are perishing because of sin, but God loves everyone, not wishing that any should perish but that all should repent. Yet those who reject Christ repudiate the joy of salvation and condemn themselves to eternal separation from God. To proclaim Jesus as ‘the Saviour of the world’ is not to affirm that all people are either automatically or ultimately saved, still less to affirm that all religions offer salvation in Christ. Rather it is to proclaim God’s love for a world of sinners and to invite everyone to respond to him as Saviour and Lord in the wholehearted personal commitment of repentance and faith. Jesus Christ has been exalted above every other name; we long for the day when every knee shall bow to him and every tongue shall confess him Lord.

(Galatians 1:6-9; Romans 1:18-32; l Timothy 2:5,6; Acts 4:12; John 3:16-19; 2 Peter 3:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; John 4:42; Matthew 11:28; Ephesians 1:20,21; Philippians 2:9-11)

To my mind, that seems to be a very clear statement of the gospel and a repudiation of syncretism.

I think you may also enjoy reflecting on this section, regarding culture:

The development of strategies for world evangelization calls for imaginative pioneering methods. Under God, the result will be the rise of churches deeply rooted in Christ and closely related to their culture. Culture must always be tested and judged by Scripture. Because men and women are God’s creatures, some of their culture is rich in beauty and goodness. Because they are fallen, all of it is tainted with sin and some of it is demonic. The gospel does not presuppose the superiority of any culture to another, but evaluates all cultures according to its own criteria of truth and righteousness, and insists on moral absolutes in every culture. Missions have, all too frequently, exported with the gospel an alien culture, and churches have sometimes been in bondage to culture rather than to Scripture. Christ’s evangelists must humbly seek to empty themselves of all but their personal authenticity in order to become the servants of others, and churches must seek to transform and enrich culture, all for the glory of God.

What this means, it seems to me, is that we need to be particular and specific in asking what culture we are discussing, what element of that culture is under review, and so on, so as to more precisely identify where there might be pagan or demonic influence - or something that reflects activity that is to the glory of God.

“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”
Revelation 14:12 KJV