Hi friends, @Interested_in_Bible,
This question comes from a member of the community who requested to remain anonymous:
For the past year I have been part of a church, which is part of a broader network.
They preach Christ and character. And it is a lovely community that loves well and seeks to walk in alignment to the word of God. For the sake of this discussion, we will call this church X
For a while however, one of X’s doctrines has been disturbing me in my spirit. I’m actually studying it and matching to the word of God. The doctrine is called: Representation. X defines it as a desire desire birthed by the Holy Spirit in the heart of X to stand before God with accurate biblical functionality on behalf of our brethren in the church around the world so that the Lord would ascribe our (X’s) spiritual achievements and accomplishments on their (church around the world) behalf also.
The problem X sees is:
God has to see the whole of the church achieve an approved standard of maturity and Christ likeness.
It is earthly impossible that each and every member of the church will reach that standard all at the same time.
This will be possible through REPRESENTATION
My honest questions are:
What is the basis for concluding that representation will be the “technology” through which
God has to see the whole of the church achieve an approved standard of maturity and Christ likeness?
How does representation as defined by X fit into to the broader message of the Word of God?
Is the context of the bible drawing the conclusion that It is earthly impossible that each and every member of the church will reach that standard all at the same time?
Is it God’s desire that we reach that standard at the same time?
How does representations as defined by X consistent with the intended meaning/purpose of Ephesians 4 ( X has been using Eph 4 :11-13, Ezek 22:30 to substantiate this teaching of representation.)?
I’ve dealt with the following two questions (see below)
Comparing the Intended meaning of Eph 4 and the problem statements defined by X
God has to see the whole of the church achieve an approved standard of maturity and Christ likeness
Indeed, the bible passage emphasizes that the goal for building up believers is for internal formation of Christ and the growth in size and stature. As grows the individual grows in faith (faith in the saving Gospel truths and faith that makes God’s Word the only rule and norm of its entire life and conduct), so grows the church. The oneness in these two basic factors of church life is the goal toward which we are working. What Paul actually has in mind is a full-grown, fully developed, mature man, the opposite of what he will call children.
It is earthly impossible that each and every member of the church will reach that standard all at the same time
Indeed, there is nothing in this bible passage and in the scripture that indicates that this form of maturity has to be reached at the same time. Just logically thinking about newborns to the faith.
Now I’m dealing with the teaching itself and I’m looking at the intended meaning of Ezekiel 22:30. What I found thus far:
The core of Ezekiel 22:30 is speaking about interceding in the first place with one’s life and secondly with en-treatment on behalf of another, whom God’s anger is burnt against. It speaks of atonement. The ministry of reconciliation.
One that should present himself/herself to the Lord on behalf of the people, seek mercy for them, interpose between God and them. Is it about ascribing spiritual achievements and accomplishments to another?
When God wanted to destroy Israel, it because of Moses plea to His mercy that He didn’t. It did not in the punishment/annihilation they deserved.
The people did not come in the same standing as Moses because of his intercession.
WHAT DID JESUS DO - The sacrifice of Jesus and the doctrine of representation
Is representation the “technology” that has caused that we all have been born in sin? - Study Roman 5
Is representation the technology that caused us to have freedom in Christ? or that we born in sin because of Adam?
I would like to understand better what the sin of Adam meant and what Jesus actually did. Can you help me with more scriptural passages?
My understanding is that because of the rebellion of Adam, a debt was created that could only be paid by death of a holy sacrfice. We all inherited the debt and were not able to settle it, because we had nothing justified by God to offer out of ourselves. This debt accumulated over time, because of the law. In the right time Jesus came settled the loan. All who accept His loan of payment are free from the judgment of debt ad are offered a new life, but in Christ. ( I still have some beauty questions here like: what happened to those who were justified by faith before Christ was born, Abraham and all fathers of faith.)
There is a form of representation (Hebrews 5:1-4), but not as X states.
I need your help, because I’m not really good at remembering were stuff is written in the scripture, but it is in my spirit. Do you have bible passages to refer me to. I also appreciate your feedback on this.