Job 1:6-7

daily_evangelism

(Sujan) #1

Hello,

The verse mentioned below is from Job 1:6

" And there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Lord and satan came also with them."

There are few questions which came up within myself and remained unanswered while reading this chapter.
Who are the sons of God?. Why did they come to present themselves before God?
And how could Satan, who had been cast away from Lord’s presence, come to His presence again?
The next verse also states that “… Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

These two verses are a bit confusing to me and need help in understanding them.

Thanks


(Albert Schmidt) #2

Hello Valli,

yes, that one made me curious as well. By the way, if a critic comes up with this, you know he took his time to read the bible and give it some thought. This stuff is deep.
From what I have learned, there is no explanation that is 100% sufficient and there is some room for interpretation. I want to show you 3 videos that explain it from different angles but I don’t want to make a doctrine of any of them.

Here are the issues that are sometimes behind this question:
How can Satan even come into the presence of god? The bible is incoherent!
How is all this fair? God is not just

One thought on that: this is not an historical account. That means, it may well be that this actually never happened. It is probably a story that tries to teach the reader a certain lesson. I always say that to get the fear out of the issue.
Here are the videos:



These are the 3 explanations I favor atm and I didn’t arrive at a conclusion, yet. But then, it’s not that important for me anymore. I know what the story tries to tell me: bad stuff happens, don’t lose your faith over it and go through it WITH god.
Actually helped me with the past 3,5 years of running my own business.

May god guide you as you dive into this very important lesson.


(SeanO) #3

@valli.sujankumar Thank you for that question. The term ‘satan’ in Hebrew simply means ‘the accuser’ or ‘the adversary’ - it is not a formal title. It is describing the role that ‘the accuser’ is playing Job - accusing Job before God. In Job the term ‘sons of God’ appears to clearly refer to angelic beings, though in Genesis 6 it may have another referent - the same term can have different meetings in different contexts.

Regarding when ‘the satan’ was cast out of Heaven, that would have been during Jesus’ earthly ministry or after His victory over the powers of evil upon the cross. So at this point in the Bible ‘the accuser’ still had access to the heavenly council.

The Lord grant you wisdom as you study. Are those thoughts helpful? Do you have further questions.

v. 6 - The “sons of God” refer to the angelic host (cf. Job 38:7). They constitute the heavenly council, God’s courtiers surrounding the throne ready to obey His every command. See also 1 Kings 22:19 and Daniel 7:9-14. With them was " the Satan ". Everywhere this word appears in Job it has the definite article (“the”; cf. 1:6,7(2),8,9,12(2); 2:1,2(2),3,4,6,7). Hence, it is a title, descriptive of his function and character. The word “Satan” literally means one who opposes at law, an adversary (seeZech. 3:1-2).

https://www.samstorms.com/all-articles/post/job-chapter-1

The “sons of God” in the OT is generally taken to refer to angels. They are not actually “sons” of Elohim ; the idiom is a poetic way of describing their nature and relationship to God. The phrase indicates their supernatural nature, and their submission to God as the sovereign Lord. It may be classified as a genitive that expresses how individuals belong to a certain class or type, i.e., the supernatural (GKC 418 §128. v ). In the pagan literature, especially of Ugarit, “the sons of God” refers to the lesser gods or deities of the pantheon. See H. W. Robinson, “The Council of Yahweh,” JTS 45 (1943): 151-57; G. Cooke, “The Sons of (the) God(s),” ZAW 76 (1964): 22-47; M. Tsevat, “God and the Gods in the Assembly,” HUCA 40-41 (1969/70): 123-37.

The NET Bible

Sons of God in Genesis 6

The term ‘sons of God’ also appears in Genesis 6 and has three possible interpretation:

1 - descendants of the line of Seth
2 - angelic beings
3 - tyrants

http://www.equip.org/article/who-were-the-sons-of-god-in-genesis-6/


Book Of Job
Significance of 'Jesus' as Son of God
(C Rhodes) #4

@valli.sujankumar.

It has been well expounded, but if I may; I would like to add my personal use of the scripture in Job and Genesis.

“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.” Job 1:6.

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:2,4.

I have always believed that these two references in the scriptures identify angels. And though it may be assumed they assembled in Heaven, the scriptures do not bear out that assumption. I also believe that Genesis 6 lends credence to the Greek Mythologies. But more important for me was the realization that Satan will assemble himself in the company of any of the sons of GOD. Be they redeemed or angelic.

I am neither shocked or dismayed when I stumble across sin within the Church of Christ.

Satan is the prince of the air, and the time has not come for his imprisonment. Ephesians 2:2 and Revelations 20. It follows that people who choose to believe that sin in the church indicates GOD is not real or Jesus is not credible. Do not understand. Sin sickness is an admission requirement. The church is for the sick. The redeemed are the medical staffers in the soul’s hospital. Satan is like any staph-infection hiding about, ready to make the sick, fatal.


(Matt Western) #5

I had asked the same question in the past and had not really had an answer, so thankyou.

I assumed that Job was an actual historical figure, but wondered “If God had cast Satan out of Heaven (either at Creation or the Tower of Babel), then what was he doing still with access to God to accuse Job?”.

The possibility that Satan was cast out of Heaven at the cross had never occurred to me. Is this now why Hebrews 7:25 says; that Jesus Christ is our advocate, our mediator that is at the right hand of God, and ever makes intercession for us? (https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-interceding.html)

I know that the exact date of the Book of Job is not certain, but the historical timeline bothered me a little. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks…


(SeanO) #6

@matthew.western Hmmm, I think the main point of that verse in Hebrews 7 is that Jesus is the High Priest of a better covenant who always lives to intercede for us. Unlike the priests in the OT, He Himself is perfect and therefore able to perfect those who come to Him.

The verse generally cited regarding Jesus seeing satan cast from heaven is in Luke:

Luke 10:18-20 - He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”


(Jimmy Sellers) #7

You might want to take a look at this link:


I think you can scratch 1&3. Nephilim were not human.
I also think that the current thought on the “sons of God” is dated and would be better understood in light of the Divine Council. From the Unseen Realm:

The unseen world has a hierarchy, something reflected in such terms as archangel versus angel. That hierarchy is sometimes difficult for us to discern in the Old Testament, since we aren’t accustomed to viewing the unseen world like a dynastic household (more on that following), as an Israelite would have processed certain terms used to describe the hierarchy. In the ancient Semitic world, sons of God (Hebrew: beney elohim) is a phrase used to identify divine beings with higher-level responsibilities or jurisdictions. The term angel (Hebrew: malʾak) describes an important but still lesser task: delivering messages.
Heiser, M. S. (2015). The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible (First Edition, pp. 23–24). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

From Heiser footnotes additional resources on the subject.

On the hierarchy of divine beings within the heavenly host, see E. Theodore Mullen Jr., “Divine Assembly,” The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, vol. 2 (ed. David Noel Freedman; New York: Doubleday, 1992), 215–16; S. B. Parker, “Sons of (The) God(S),” in Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, 2nd ed. (ed. Karel van der Toorn, Bob Becking, and Pieter W. van der Horst; Leiden; Boston; Cologne; Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge: Brill; Eerdmans, 1999), 798; Michael S. Heiser, “Divine Council,” in Lexham Bible Dictionary (ed. John D. Barry and Lazarus Wentz; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012); Michael S. Heiser, “Divine Council,” in the Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry, and Writings (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2008), 112–16; G. Cooke, “The Sons of (the) God(s),” Zeitschrift für die alttestamentliche Wissenschaft 35 (1964): 22–47.
Heiser, M. S. (2015). The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible (First Edition). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.


(SeanO) #8

@Jimmy_Sellers Thanks for the resources. I’ve read some of Heiser’s thoughts and I don’t believe that his theories about a 3 tier divine council, the idea that ‘the accuser’ in Job was a member of the council rather than the same ‘accuser’ we see in the NT or the general significance of the divine council have the level of explanatory power he suggests. He uses parallels with the Canaanite pantheon and other pagan pantheons to attempt to strengthen his argument, which I do not find to be a valid line of thought.

Overall, I find some of his points interesting - like the fact that in John 3:16 the word ‘begotten’ is misleading - the NET Bible verifies this point.

Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [[Luke 7:12, 9](javascript:{}):38] or a daughter [[Luke 8:42](javascript:{})]). It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clement 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac ([Heb 11:17](javascript:{}) and Josephus, Ant . 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise. Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God (τέκνα θεοῦ, tekna theou ), Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14, 1:18, 3:16, and 3:18).

But his theories about the divine council, while intriguing, are not conclusive in my opinion.


(Jimmy Sellers) #9

I think I stated in previous post that I not am sure that I total agree with his conclusions either (but for different reasons) but I am curious if what he says is accurate by this, I mean is it possible that the writers of these books actually believed what they wrote? And if they believed it was it true are we on the verge of a new “flat earth society” comprised of believers that have been taught that these stories are just Bible difficulties only to find out that the text “in the context of the cultural and historical data of that time” really says they did.

I noticed that the Bible project has a new video series entitled


I think we will have a lot of food for thought in the days to come.
If anyone is interested in the topic of spiritual beings I do recommend

I think that is a must read if you want to follow the bread crumbs.


(SeanO) #10

@Jimmy_Sellers I definitely find the topic interesting, but I think that past a certain point it becomes speculation. And while I enjoy speculation about such things as much as the next person, I think it is unwise to to place emphasis on things that are speculative in nature - such as the exact roles of these beings or their place in salvation history.


(Jimmy Sellers) #11

Not to beat a dead horse but I think that it is important to understand that this line of thought is not without merit. If we stop with “beings” and their roles then I would agree that we have a mystery that like will ramp by to speculation, but there is so much here I find it hard to ignore. If it is were just Job 1:6 and Gen 6:1-4 then I can live with the weak explanation of these verses (what I call Sunday School explanations). As I have stated in previous posts it warrants some discussion.


(SeanO) #12

@Jimmy_Sellers I agree it warrants discussion and is a very intriguing line of thought :slight_smile: On one level it makes me think of ‘Out of the Silent Planet’ by C. S. Lewis and the Eldila / Oyarsa - spirit beings that ruled in the heavens. Such a magical picture of the cosmos certainly captures the imagination and is quite far from the view of space as an empty void.


(C Rhodes) #13

@SeanO. The question in my mind regarding Luke 10:18-20 is which Heaven is being referred to? I always assumed that verse 17 parlayed into a reference of the Heaven above our heads, not where GOD’s throne is located. Which heaven do you think it references. 2 Corinthians 12:2. references at least three heavens.


(SeanO) #14

@cer7 I had always heard 2 Cor 12:2 explained by preachers as the 3rd Heaven being where God is, the 2nd Heaven being where the stars are and the 1st Heaven just being the sky. But when I read the background commentary it said some Jewish texts talk about 5,7 and even 999 Heavens - the main point being that the highest Heaven is where God actually dwells. So now I’m uncertain if Paul had a 3 tier view of Heavens or if 3rd Heaven was just a way of saying God’s dwelling place.

Personally, I’ve always wondered how Paul knew this guy’s story was true. The only New Testament person I could think of would be the apostle John and Revelation. The context of this passage is Paul trying to tell the Corinthians that there is no benefit - no gain - in having supernatural experiences if they are not rooted in the Gospel. The power of God is in the Gospel and Paul is worried the Corinthians have taken their eyes off Jesus and put them on these fraudsters, who Paul jokingly calls ‘super apostles’.

1 Cor 11:5 - I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.”

2 Cor 12:1-4 - Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Regarding Luke 10, I think a parallel is in Romans 12, which is a retelling of the birth of Christ and the casting out of satan from heaven. My understanding is that Romans 12 is telling the story of Jesus and the persecution of the early Church.

Romans 12:7-10 - Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.