My Question: how do we go from a moral law to a moral lawgiver

Hi everyone, I have read several answers from different speakers in RZIM with regards to this topic.

I was hoping someone could give me a succinct summary or even direct me in a study on how I can get from moral law to moral lawgiver, I understand we need a reference point for our morality to differentiate between good and evil but I need to be able to explain it in a simple yet effective way to an atheist.

Thanks guys!


Hello Luke, I think what’s more important than the answer itself , it’s the way we explain it to someone who doesn’t even believe in the existence of God you’re right.
Well as you said the presence of a reference to differentiate between good and bad is essential.
But I think each reference either it’s in life, philosophy or even in science should be put by someone and accepted then applied by the others.
Same goes for- I think the most important- reference that helps us choose between right and wrong, good and bad.
Im interested in thermodynamics in which the reference is the enthalpy of formation of pure substances . any enthalpy in other states is taken relatively to that one. So if somehow that reference was wrong then our whole study in that field is useless(if youre not interested in that subject just ignore my example)
but the point is that the one who puts a reference in any field should be well knowing in it.
Same goes for the moral reference. its giver should be not well but all knowing . It’s a supernatural force that we call God!
they can call it whatever they want but there must be a mind behind our moral law otherwise we’d be playing russian roulette.
And one last thing , counting only on our instinct is no option because that’s what differentiate us from animals.

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Hello @LukeWadehn

Very great question :grinning:

I also want to commend you for having a conversation with an atheist.
I hope every discussion God uses you to bring your friends to Him.

I would like to share my response to this subject.

Why do we need a Moral law giver?

You know, when someone raises the question of evil, someone has to assumes there is good. When someone assumes there is good, someone assumes a moral law giver, an objective point of reference to which we differentiate good and evil.

And the moment we come to the moral law, we must posit a Moral Law Giver.
But why? Why do we need such Moral law giver?

Here are my 2 lines of thoughts.

1.) Every time someone raises the question of evil, it is either raise BY a person or ABOUT a person.

We can’t raise the question of evil without positing the value of human life.
Life is sacred, it has value, therefore the question of evil ends up to the very Person of God who gives value and sacredness of life.

Our lives has no value if we are just a product of time + matter + chance.
We come to the Moral Law Giver because the question of evil is either raise by a person or about a person.

2.) An objective point of reference, which is the moral law must come from an objective Moral Law Giver.

We as subjective human beings cannot create an objective moral law, only an objective Moral Law Giver, who is God, can posit an unchanging point of reference.

I hope this simple answers help you.
Thank you for the time to read this. :heart::grinning:


@Gabriel thank you so much for your thoughts. God bless

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Wow thanks man. I appreciate you taking time to write this, love it. God bless :slight_smile:

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Thank you so much.

It means a lot to me. :smiley: