My Question: SS marriage

(Kelvin Bottle) #1

Hi everyone, as friend of mine is just to get married in the summer she is SSA and professes to being Christian. When I asked her about this she said simple that Love is Love.

So my question is this would divorce be a acceptable if God convicted her that she made the wrong choice? While two wrongs don’t make a right it would lead to restoration.

Our view of scripture is of course different. Also I have many other friends who are highly supportive of them getting married and again they are Christians.

I have found trying to broach the subject difficult and challenging because even when I am gentle and loving in my approach I struggle.

Thank you

(SeanO) #2

@Kelvin77 I have linked some other threads on Connect that discuss this issue at length. The main thing I would say is that, as N. T. Wright points out in the following video, the word ‘marriage’ has always implied a union between male and female. Biblically this is certainly the case. So it is not possible for two people to be married in the Biblical sense without being male and female, because that is what marriage by definition is within Scripture.

For more resources on how to think through this issue, I have provided a link to articles at the ‘The Gospel Coalition’. When we interact with individuals who believe SS marriage is okay or condoned by Scripture, I believe we must communicate the truth in love and we must know when it is time to speak and when it is time to remain silent.

Christ grant you wisdom as you study this topic on your own and seek to be a faithful witness in a broken world!

(Kelvin Bottle) #3

Thanks I will read through these. I agree with the need to speak at the right time. I have been wrestling with this topic for a while now. I agree that a biblical marriage is between a man and a woman.

The question you reference “how can it be wrong if it doesn’t hurt anyone?” I have heard banded around and likewise “Love is love what does it matter to you?”

It is hard when I have chatted to those who support SS Marriage and even when I have done this in a sensitive way that they come back saying almost attacking “what right do I have to say that? or that I am showing hate to the person” very challenging

I know from myself that at times I have not been great which is why i backed off for a long time and to learn and understand. Thank you again for these they are very helpful

(SeanO) #4

@Kelvin77 Sure thing. You might also find this article from Michael Ramsden helpful. Christ grant you wisdom as you reach to others in truth and love.

Even though popular culture may think otherwise, true love—and compassion—cannot be found in the absence of judgment. The word compassion comes from ecclesiastical Latin; that is, Latin that was inspired by the Christian faith and used to help govern and guide the church’s behavior. The word means to make a moral judgment about a situation and to do so with empathy and a passion to respond. So when you see poverty and you say, “That’s wrong. People should not live this way,” you have passed a moral judgment about the situation. However, in order for this response to be compassionate, it needs to be followed both with an appropriate emotional response and a conviction to do something about it. When you see injustice and call it such, you pass a moral judgment. You say, “That is wrong. It should not be this way.” But if you are compassionate, you will decide to do something about it. Compassion and love cannot exist apart from moral judgment.

Similarly, God longs to shine his light of moral judgment into our hearts, not to expose and shame us but to transform us into his likeness because He is a gracious and compassionate God. God’s love for us does not exist without judgment because without it, true intimacy and love with Him would be impossible. God’s love for us also cannot be known without transformation because we are in no state to enjoy Him and have fellowship with Him. On the cross, Christ became a curse for us, taking the punishment of God on our behalf so that we may be redeemed from the curse that we were under and so through Christ be reconciled to God by being transformed by Him.

The gospel is about the God who sees the situation we are in and passes judgment on it. He sees the pain. He passes judgment on our sin and shame, and yet, He so loves us and has compassion on us that He came into this world to be broken for us, so that we can know wholeness in Him. In Him, we find true freedom, love, and grace, and the ability to love others as He has so loved us.

(Shawn Cooper) #5

Could it be that we are in general looking at this question backwards? Marriage should not and is not a question of “Love”. Love is something that comes out of marriage. It is an expression of marriage not the other way around. Throughout history i would wager to say there have been more marriages of convenience or status or simply arranged for whatever reason than have more recently come to be we get married because we love each other. I dont have any statistics to back that up nor would it even be possible to arrive at an actual number but the statistics we do have show pretty conclusively that the older views of marriage were far more successful than our modern day views. Now obviously much of the argument for this centers on the definition of love, but by definition marriage has a purpose. As a Christian it can simply boil down to this, God created marriage very expressly as the union between a man and a woman. Unless you have authority that change God’s design, which you don’t, and not even Jesus, being equal in power and authority, thought it was a good idea to claim that, you simply have to follow God’s plan. that is not an argument worthy of the secular world obviously but if you claim to be a christian it cannot be ignored.

(Andrea L) #6

I think the word “love” has lost its core characteristic which ends up in a biased understanding of its meaning (in the society). Most of the people would define love as a feeling (emotion). But it’s missing the very base of it: love is a choice. I choose to love - and then (through God’s work in my heart) my emotions will follow it.
It also incorporates action. That’s again something I think people wouldn’t think of when talking about love.

(Kelvin Bottle) #7

I agree that love is more than emotion, it’s a work word that demands us to work it out even when things get tough and rough. In those times it gets its hand dirty as it works through the situations. It holds us by the hand and pulls us through the mud and more. it’s not all joy it can be hard and painful.

When I see those around me and I think how did you get to think like this and what has swayed you away from the truth on the issue of marriage. I love my friends and love here needs to be so gentle, calm yet getting its hands dirty.

Speaking the truth in love is hard and painful at times. My hope and prayer is that the right opportunitys come up for meaningful conversation that gets them to think. My hope is as well for the church leadership to be brave and to not remain silent and to share it’s position with love and integrity.

I have been called many things but usually it’s intolerant because I will not change the views that I hold on marriage and human sexuality. Biblical views.

(Mrs. Olive Kaiser) #8

I do not support same sex marriages as I cannot see that same sex behaviors are Scriptural.

However I hope the church as a Body can become more informed on the underlying causes of this epidemic same sex attraction/behavior and marriages, and on a totally different note, gender alteration of various types. I believe if we understood the medical, embryological, environmental ramifications we would approach these matters with different attitudes, and some changes to our conclusions in some cases, not to sacrifice Scriptural morals, but how we handle these people.

Endocrine disruption and epigenetic chromosomal mutations are well established in medical literature, and many many cases of these alteration fall in those categories. They are birth defects caused by chemicals and other toxins or in some cases post birth injuries. Some of these toxins have been around since the Fall, such as heavy metals, poisonous plants, etc. But the upsurge of toxicity has skyrocketed in the past century or since the civil war and more particularly since the world wars.

I do not believe all cases of homosexual behavior is an environmental injury. Some heterosexual people simply choose to behave in an unscriptural manner, but many true cases of same sex attraction are injury. Unfortunately it may be that these dear people need to be celibate, and I say that with a lot of grief. Surely we can support them in their loneliness as a church family. Also when possible financially, we can begin to put teeth into our expressions of sympathy by rearranging our finances and choices to avoid these substances when we can, so they see we mean it. Its hard to counsel a SSA young person to be celibate for life with a plastic endocrine disrupting water bottle in our own hands. Sooner or later these kids are going to know what may have caused their situation.