New testament original language and eph:3:12


(Benjamin ) #1

Dear body of Christ

Anybody has profound knowledge with the new testaments original language? I believe it is koine greek? Or anybody knows of a good page to work with?

I was seeing some changes made for example from the KJV to all newer versions in english.

The same changes were made in spanish from the reina valera antigua to reina valera 1960.

Example: ephesians 3:12

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“by the faith OF him” was changed into the “faith IN him”

The same in spanish. It is a clear difference.

In german, the luther bible and as far i know the oldest one in german it was always the faith IN.

Now the question which comes to my mind is what was written in the original language?

Has anybody studied this topic already?


(SeanO) #2

@bracherbracher When you have questions about translation differences such as this one, a great place to start is the NET Bible. It is maintained by scholars from Dallas Theological Seminary and offers great notes on translation issues. For example, here is the note on Ephesians 3:12 discussing the very question you had regarding faith ‘of Christ’ versus ‘in Christ’.

tn Or “to God through faith in him.” A decision is difficult here. Though traditionally translated “faith in Jesus Christ,” an increasing number of NT scholars are arguing that πίστις Χριστοῦ ( pistis Christou ) and similar phrases in Paul (here and in [Rom 3:22, 26](javascript:{}); [Gal 2:16, 20; 3:22](javascript:{}); [Phil 3:9](javascript:{})) involve a subjective genitive and mean “Christ’s faith” or “Christ’s faithfulness” (cf., e.g., G. Howard, “The ‘Faith of Christ’,” ExpTim 85 [1974]: 212-15; R. B. Hays, The Faith of Jesus Christ [SBLDS]; Morna D. Hooker, “Πίστις Χριστοῦ,” NTS 35 [1989]: 321-42). Noteworthy among the arguments for the subjective genitive view is that when πίστις takes a personal genitive it is almost never an objective genitive (cf. [Matt 9:2, 22, 29](javascript:{}); [Mark 2:5; 5:34; 10:52](javascript:{}); [Luke 5:20; 7:50; 8:25, 48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32](javascript:{}); [Rom 1:8; 12; 3:3; 4:5, 12, 16](javascript:{}); [1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17](javascript:{}); [2 Cor 10:15](javascript:{}); [Phil 2:17](javascript:{}); [Col 1:4; 2:5](javascript:{}); [1 Thess 1:8; 3:2, 5, 10](javascript:{}); [2 Thess 1:3](javascript:{}); [Titus 1:1](javascript:{}); Phlm 6; [1 Pet 1:9, 21](javascript:{}); [2 Pet 1:5](javascript:{})). On the other hand, the objective genitive view has its adherents: A. Hultgren, “The Pistis Christou Formulations in Paul,” NovT 22 (1980): 248-63; J. D. G. Dunn, “Once More, ΠΙΣΤΙΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ,” SBL Seminar Papers , 1991, 730-44. Most commentaries on Romans and Galatians usually side with the objective view.

sn By way of Christ’s faithfulness . Though Paul elsewhere teaches justification by faith, this presupposes that the object of our faith (Christ) is reliable and worthy of such faith.

You may also find this thread helpful:


(Rob Lundberg) #3

The question that is raised here is an interesting one. Taking from a more “wooden translation” like the New American (Alexandrian text which is earlier than the KJV’s Byzantine TR). The confusion is really how the editorial committees of various translations handle various texts.

The text in question is Ephesians 3:12, “in whom we have boldness and confident access through ‘faith in/of Him’” Here is where the syntactical analysis can be fun or a headache.

If the rendering of the original phrase is rendered “dia tais pisteos autou” (spelling it out phonetically), here we see the preposition dia, with the respective case (i.e., genitive/ablative) which can be rendered, in many contexts “through” or “by means of.” There is the question that comes up, Where is the direction of faith pointed to?

Taking and translating the texts with no English translation help except for consultation and looking at the grammatical syntax, the last part of Ephesians 3:12 can be translation,

“. . .we have boldness and confident access ‘through the means of his faith’”

So is the phrase be rendered by the KJV or by another translation correct like the NASB? My answer is. . . Both. This is not a matter of which one is right or wrong, but the question of how the editorial committees of each translation chose to print out the text. BTW, One my favorite texts to each translation chose to print the text.

The KJV went with “by the of him” while the NASB went with “through faith in Him.” Why is this confusing? Is it the way that translations present themselves? Could it be a question of whose faith? This is where consulting the original translation can demonstrate that there is really no issue.

Honestly I lean more toward the NASB because the NT really sticks like superglue to the literal rendering of Greek text, while smoothing out word order and putting idioms in the marginal notes. I also look at Young’s Literal Translation for my translation studies, and this phrase in Young’s looks like the KJV. :wink:

BTW, I agree with @SeanO’s reference to the NetBible as well.