Slavery and the Bible

Say hello…

Where are you from?
What led you to join Connect?
How do you hope to contribute?
I don’t think I can

I am writing because my friend of almost 40 years has decided he cannot believe the bible. I wonder if I can find some people who would try to look at some of his questions.

I guess I am starting out by asking is there anyone willing to email me or respond here in this


You are most Welcome Phil @philm

The RZIM Connect is a family that appreciate the sincere questions of people who are searching for the truth about certain things in life and the Bible that seems difficult for them to agree with. I
can understand your frustration. I also remember one of my friend who refuse attending any Church meetings or fellowship for years because he does not trust the pastors and christians in general. He said to me once " I love Christianity but I don’t trust Christians".

You will definitely find answers to your questions here. Find time to explore the community and let’s hear some of your pressing questions.
With Jesus Love
Grace and Peace.
From Nigeria.


Dear Brother John,

Bless you and thanks. I think my frustration rattles me a little. I have jumped in here without having a better look around to get a feel and pick up a better idea of how to understand this connect place.

I think I should turn my computer off and go to bed and come back sometime soon.

Seeing this is introductory, although I used philm when asked for a name, I use philwithJESUS as my email signature. I pray it is not seen as something pretentious but as a kind of play on words. It is meant to convey, that I both desire to be with Him Who is the lover of our souls and also that others would be filled with JESUS.


Hello, @philm! Welcome to our community! We’re very glad you’ve joined, and as @WorshipGod has mentioned, we would be happy to hear about your friend’s objections and see if we can direct you in a helpful way to minister to him. We also have a wonderful team of people who faithfully pray for the needs on people on Connect, so do each out to them on the #christian-growth:Bible-memory-and-prayer category if you so desire. We would love to lift you both up in prayer as you direct. :slight_smile:

As for your friend, are you under the impression that he was believing the Bible all these years and now has, all of a sudden, stopped?

Do continue to reply to this thread, and then we can direct you to how to post one of his questions for discussion. :grin:


My friend didn’t all of a sudden stop believing in the Bible. For several years we talked on the phone and SKYPE. He, always wanting to look at the scriptures together and me always wanting to go after a greater heart for Jesus.

I’m not sure how or where to start. I came here the other day after having been contacted by my friend. I was sad that I did not act very gently and lovingly towards him. Not nasty, just short. He decided to end the call.

Since then, one or two more emails from him. They are always in the vain, and I tend to think they are in vain.

Maybe if I show you his last email, that will give you an idea of how you can give me an idea, of how to go about telling you about my friend.

We are such complex creatures, are we not?

Thanks for asking what you did.

hi Phil,

you are like this caller, in this utube… you are in denial, that verses like, in Exodus 21, and 100s of other places in the bible, are wrong.

And I say, and many others say, these verses could not exist if G o d were a god of love.

Phil, you have wedged yourself into a place, where, you start with the premise, that EVERYTHING from the bible is perfect.

I don’t start with that premise anymore.

Let me know, out of curtisy where this utube above goes wrong…
Because, you will obviously , disagree.

You have time…

why does Your God say,
it’s ok to own, other people.???

Would u be ok with me owning a female slave, using the guidelines of Exodus 21.

Would u Phil, be my slave, using the guidelines of Exodus 21.


I put a space in the link so it wouldn’t be a link. I rarely, if ever, click on his links, It’s about -

Slavery in the Bible is Disingenuous | Ryan - Florida | Atheist Experience 23.25

The Atheist Experience 23.25 for June 16, 2019 with Matt Dillahunty & Eric Murphy. Call the show on Sundays 4-6pm CT: 1-512-686-0279 or use our green call th…

Welcome to the community…we are glad to have you. Nothing to worry about. God sees your heart and it pleases Him that you desire to have a closer walk with Him. That’s what matters.

I will be praying for your friend.

Hello Phil, thank you very much for describing the situation with your friend and also for sharing his questions and objections. His mail sounds quite pejorative to me and he challenges you directly to disprove his view. With such a negative basic attitude towards the Bible, it is probably more about him rejecting the Bible as God’s perfect word and not only considering the issue of slavery as problematic.
In the Connect forums there are some contributions on slavery, e.g. here:

This thread specifically deals with Exodus 21.

And in this video Abdu Murray answers similar questions

I hope that this will help you and you will be able to bring God’s good word to your friend with much love. God’s blessing.
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Thank you @iDan,

I listened to Abdu and sent it to my friend.

I thought I left a reply to you but it seems I never did. I am here again for the same reason. That is, another long harrowing phone call from my friend, who yes, has rejected the bible for what he believes are very sound reasons. I’m not sure he isn’t going mad but he doesn’t seem to be. At least, I can’t tell. But he started off saying he was looking for truth. Going through the bible with commentaries and an Interlinear Greek-English New Testament. I think he has been reading anything or anyone who has problems with the bible and is now thoroughly convinced the bible is full of problems.

What has happened to him, really turns me off ever wanting try to look at the scriptures under a microscope in order to placate any intelligence I may have. The arguments or his gripes’ about verses all seem to come from his idea that God is really horrible. He blames me for his having become a Christian. I believe he truly once loved the LORD. Now I find it extremely difficult to talk with him. I think he now believes there is no god.

Here is the latest link he sent me. I don’t think I have ever looked at any of them. I joined this Connect community to see if I can find things to say to him. What he goes on about seems to be questions that apologetics would try to answer. Never, I tend to think, to his satisfaction.


I do not engage with him very well at all. I tend to think it wouldn’t matter what anyone said, he seems determined not to believe and yet perhaps he rings me hoping I might say something that would give him some hope. He never says anything like that to me, it is just what I think. If he asks me anything that you would think requires an answer from scripture, I don’t even respond and then he quotes ‘always be ready to give an answer…’, but I just don’t answer. I don’t even try and I don’t even seem to cry for him. But I do keep praying the LORD would deliver him out of his unbelief. I ask the LORD if He doesn’t want me to pray for him. I usually go off thinking, ‘cast all your cares’, so I keep on praying. John Piper mentions this passage in 1Samuel 2:25 If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.


from that link

2. God may not permit a sinning person to do what is right.

“But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for the Lord desired to put them to death.” Listening to the voice of their father was the right thing to do. But they would not. Why? “For the Lord desired to put them to death.” The reason given for why they did not obey their father was that God had other purposes for them, and had given them up to sinning and death. This shows that there are times when the will of God’s decree is different from the will of God’s command. He commanded, “Children, obey your parents.” But in this case he willed that instead of obedience they persist in their sin and be slain. God is not sinning in this will of decree. He is ordering things so that sin continue for holy and just purposes, which is not sin on God’s part.

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