Successful Prayers To The Saints

(Cameron Kufner) #1

So, my boss and I have been talking about our faith as of late, he is a Catholic, while I am a part of a non-denominational (basically summed up as protestant) church. My grandmother and I are the only one’s in our family who are protestant, while the rest are all professing Roman Catholics, so I do have a lot of respect for those who are Catholic. One thing I have always disagreed with Catholics on though have been their prayers to the Virgin Mary and to the saints. That being said, my boss was telling me, that he prays to the saints and that they answer him. I have never told him a disagree or have I debated, but just listened to what he had to say, keeping an open mind to the idea that the saints may still be at work. He’s prayed to St. Anthony (saint who helps find lost things) and says that after he prays, he finds what he is looking for, some of the prayers surprised me and made me say “Well, there’s no way that was a coincidence.” I still believe I should pray to God alone, because he is a jealous God, but there’s no denying that the prayer has worked. The findings my boss has are nothing short of miraculous. In my mind, I’m thinking that God is answering that prayer and disregarding the fact that my boss prayed to St. Anthony. That wouldn’t make much sense though, because if I prayed to “allah” or “buddha” or any other “god”, my prayers would not be answered because that’s not who God is. Kinda conflicted on how to address successful prayers to the saints. Are they still at work? Is it God disregarding the fact that he wasn’t addressed in prayer properly?

I appreciate all your feedback and insights.

8 Likes
(SeanO) #2

@CamKufner We had a very good discussion on a similar topic in my missiology class about witchcraft. In a particular village we studied in Africa, everyone had stories about being cursed or being cured by witch doctors - stories where it seemed improbable without supernatural intervention. Because of all of these stories - you might call them folklore - the Churches often were syncretistic - they mixed Christianity with pagan religion. They just could not shake the power of these anecdotes over their mind. No matter how much factual data they saw - they had the ‘but Uncle so and so said…’ or ‘Grandma always told us…’ or ‘I went to the witch doctor and…’

Our human brains are designed to find patterns and ascribe agency to things - that’s just how they work. And we are all terribly susceptible to bias based on our own experiences or the folklore that has surrounded us throughout our lives. That is one reason I do not think our theology should be rooted in our experience alone - we could very easily misinterpret what we are experiencing. I think we need the Church Body - the historic Church - God’s Spirit and a willingness to critically examine our own opinions and experiences.

A second point - statistically things that seem improbable to us are not necessarily that improbable (see Birthday Paradox below). So your friend tells you a story - it sounds impossible without divine intervention. Well…maybe not. Again, we often ascribe agency to things that might be chance. Now, some would say that nothing is truly the result of chance - but providence and a direct answer to prayer are not quite the same thing.

Is God hearing your friend’s prayers? I have no idea - I don’t know the guy’s heart - only Jesus does. But I do know that Jesus is the only name with any power and the only means of accessing the Father.

The Lord Jesus grant you wisdom :slight_smile:

How Patterns are More Likely than We Think

As just a simple example of how statistics can be surprising when it comes to what we would call coincidence or divine ordainment, consider the birthday paradox. We might say if we only had 23 people in a room and 2 had the same birthday, their arrival at that place may have some significance. Statistically, it does not.

How many people must be there in a room to make the probability 50% that two people in the room have same birthday?
Answer: 23
The number is surprisingly very low. In fact, we need only 70 people to make the probability 99.9 %.

3 Likes
(Russell Mashburn) #3

I feel everyone is on their own spiritual journey. Having free will God might allow us to make mistakes to learn from and ultimately points to him. We gain understanding.

With free will we can choose to pray to anyone. We know only God is all mighty and through Christ he’s the only one that can save us.

3 Likes
(Lakshmi Mehta) #4

@CamKufner, any experience that we have has to be interpreted through the lens of the Bible to ascertain if it is from God. God would not go against what He has revealed in His word. Here are a few verses that strongly suggest to me that Jesus is the only mediator and no one but God is worshipped in heaven.

Jesus is the only mediator
1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Heb 4:16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. ( Eph 3:12 as well)

Jesus but not saints like Moses or Elijah were to be worshipped at the mount of transfiguration
Matt 17: 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

In the vision of heaven, angel refuses worship from John
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy,”

So we are all saints in Christ and have the same access to God through one mediator and neither the great saints Moses and Elijah nor the Angels are to be worshipped/revered. If we have the Holy Spirit of God to help us pray to God, why would we need saints? In the Lord’s prayer too, it is the Father alone who is addressed.

I do not think we can be so sure that false gods cant answer prayers. They may answer prayers at a cost as we can learn from the story of the temptation of Jesus.

Luke 4:6 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore if you worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

The bible also warns not to pray to the dead in the OT as seen in the response below from Got questions.

The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? (4) Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a “saint” is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Asking people on earth to pray for us has a strong biblical basis; asking the saints or Mary to pray has no biblical basis whatsoever.
God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15).

I realize honor of saints is not considered the same as worship of Christ , but praying to a saint seems more than honor. These are just a few thoughts to consider. May God give you wisdom for the conversations with your boss.

10 Likes
(Stephen Wuest) #5

The question of praying TO the saints, and asking the saints to pray for us, are different.

We ask our (Christian) friends to pray for us. We are commanded to pray for each other. Is it different to ask the saints who have gone before us (rather than the saints we live among), to pray for us? We see the saints in Revelation, praying on behalf of the people of God. the prayer of a righteous man, has great effect. Are the saints conscious? Do they know what is going on, on earth?

If you would pose the question in a way that is not obviously idolatrous, then perhaps you could think about a different possibility. At every prayer meeting in the Protestant groups, Christians ask other saints to pray for them.

4 Likes
(Lakshmi Mehta) #6

One additional thought after what @Stephen_Wuest posted… When the Bible says, “prayers of a righteous man avails much”, is it referring to the living or the dead saints? It was spoken to the living saints who were being encouraged to confess their sins to each other. What is the purpose behind God answering prayers of the righteous? I think it is that “God seeks our obedience”. I interpret the verse from James 5:16 in the light of Ps 25:14 The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant. Since the dead saints who are in Christ are already in the presence of the Lord and the Lord is already revealed to them, the difference in the sanctification of dead saints is making no difference in God’s revelation to them. So James 5:16 must refer to the living saints. Thoughts?

These are such sensitive issues especially when it comes to a boss. May the Lord guide you to speak the truth in love.

3 Likes
(SeanO) #7

@Lakshmismehta In the Old Testament it was forbidden to seek engagement with those who had died and in the New Testament we have zero examples of praying to anyone but God.

There are texts in Revelation where it seems that the saints in Heaven are aware of the prayers of people being lifted up to God, but I agree with Matt Slick’s analysis that the text gives zero indication that these saints were able to then intercede. As in Hebrews 7, Christ is our intercessor - not saints. In addition, it is apocalyptic literature, so it is hard to know how much we can press the images presented to be depictions of literal realities.

Also, I think we would do well to remember the way in which Paul himself - one of the chief apostles - always put Christ at the center. Why would that change after he had died? Surely Paul would be horrified if he found that people were trying to pray to him - I imagine he might even tear his clothes.

I Cor 3:5-7 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.

Acts 14:11-15 - The people saw what Paul did. They called with loud voices in the language of the people of Lycaonia, “The gods have become like men and have come down to us.” 12 They said that Barnabas was Jupiter. Paul was called Mercury because he spoke more than Barnabas. 13 The god of Jupiter was in a building near the gate leading into the city. The religious leader of that place brought cattle and flowers to the gate. He and many other people wanted to burn these as gifts in an act of worship to Paul and Barnabas.

14 When Paul and Barnabas heard this, they ran among the people. They tore their clothes and cried out, 15 “Why are you doing this? We are only men with feelings like yours. We preach the Good News that you should turn from these empty things to the living God. He made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Second , just because those in heaven can hear the prayers of those on Earth does not mean that is okay to pray to saints. If they can hear the prayers of people, it is because God grants that to them. Think about it. Can those in heaven hear the prayers uttered without speech? Can they read minds? It is only God who knows all things, and only God can grant anyone to hear or know what the prayers are of those who pray in silence. Let’s not give the saints superhuman powers similar to omniscience. Nevertheless, all the text is saying is that they can hear the praise and worship of God. It does not say that they are to receive prayers, nor does it imply praying to them is permitted. All it says is that they can hear the prayers and praise. There is nothing suggesting that those on Earth are requesting the prayers or intercession of those in heaven. Nothing like this is in the text, nor is there even a hint of it.

https://carm.org/praying-saints-biblical

5 Likes
(Lakshmi Mehta) #8

@SeanO, thanks for all the additional references of scripture to build the case more strongly. Praying through saints as you know is a common practice in Hinduism. When I have tried to speak to my family about not doing that, they have brought up the fact about Catholics approaching God through saints. This is personally helpful!

2 Likes
(SeanO) #9

@Lakshmismehta Glad you found it helpful! Yes, I think the deeper we look into the Scriptures the more we realize that it is God alone whose aid is to be sought. Even the angels do not allow men to bow down to them. We consistently see that true servants of God always direct peoples’ prayer and worship towards God and not toward themselves.

Revelation 22:8-9 - I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

4 Likes
(Stephen Wuest) #10

Lakshmi,

I understand the way in which many Christians understand these verses (they apply only to saints living on this side of death). But I ask you to consider who the people of God are, and whether they include those saints who have gone before. And consider that Jesus, has gone through death and is now our mediator before the Father.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
NIV Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. (Heb 11:39-2 NIV)

The “cloud of witnesses” is the saints who have been faithful, and have gone before. This includes the man Christ. And while the New Testament phrase “one another” refers to the people of God, the New Testament sees the continuity of the people of God as including those who have gone before us, through death. I think that the language of the New Testament is much more radical, than we often grasp. “They” will not be made perfect without “us.” “We” will not be made perfect without “them.” “You shall be perfect, as my heavenly father is perfect.” “They” are witnesses to “our” lives!

I understand what many Christians think that this language means. But I think that there is a much more radical and powerful and organic nature to the people of God, than what many Christians grasp. Death cannot separate us, from the saints who have gone before. They are witnesses to our lives. They pray. Just as Christ is THE mediator before the Father for us. Just as the Holy Spirit prays wordlessly, the things that we cannot even put into words. We celebrate their “birthdays” (the day of their martyrdoms). We celebrate their great acts of faith. They celebrate our daily victories, as witnesses of our lives.

I don’t think that we can artificially carve up the people of God, using the temporary boundary of physical death.

2 Likes
(Lakshmi Mehta) #11

@Stephen_Wuest, we recently did a study in our church on Hebrews and I agree with you that the body of Christ encompasses all the believers in Christ those who have gone before us in time, the present and those who will go after us in Christ. We are fulfilling together the promise that was seen only from afar by those who have gone before us and are also part of the story of the future. I get the idea that the dead saints are able to see us (probably as God allows) but do not get the idea that we are to focus on them or communicate with them. We support their cause focusing on Christ - Heb 12:1 tells us - fixing our eyes on Jesus we are to run with endurance just as the heroes of faith. Similarly, angels may be able to see us as there is rejoicing in heaven for every sinner who repents but angels too direct our worship to God and are not our mediators. So as for prayer, I think Christ is the only mediator but the dead saints and angels are waiting on us and perhaps cheering us on. Can discuss more in the next thread.

https://connect.rzim.org/t/the-living-and-the-dead-saints/15265

2 Likes
(Leigh Ann Coudriet) #12

Lakshmi,
I have never heard of praying through saints as a common practice in Hinduism…?! Wow! I have a lot to learn and understand about the Christian faith alone but also these other religions. Who are their saints? I thought they just worshipped animals and believed in reincarnation.

I ask because am around many Hindus at the college and need to understand these things and how to respond if questions should arise like you mentioned about your family. Thank you!

2 Likes
(James Hunt) #13

In addition to the other answers, we should also the possibility he is exaggerating or even making it up to validate his beliefs/superstitions.

1 Like
(Lakshmi Mehta) #14

Hi @Leigh_Coudriet, We all have a lot to learn! Hinduism is so varied both in philosophy and practice depending on the family one comes from. Different deities, traditions, economic, social and caste background, education etc. all affect how the religion is followed. Indian philosophy is considered by most Hindus to be very rich and they could get offended if one thinks of it mainly as animal worship :slightly_smiling_face: The most common understanding that an educated modern day Hindu whom you may encounter in the West will have is of pluralism - that there is more than one way to go to God. Most hindus believe in Trimurti - three main gods who work together in the universe- Brahma - the creator, Vishnu-the preserver, Shiva - the destroyer. Only Vishnu and Shiva are usually worshipped still. Krishna is also a very important god as Bhagavad gita (Main hindu scripture) is given by him. Some sects place Krishna above all other gods. The different gods are considered as different paths to the one real God who comes in different forms according to what may be attractive to a person, so that all may worship god one way or another. Every family places emphasis on a different set of gods or god and may follow the teachings of a guru according to family traditions. So, yes some hindus do worship saints! - also called as spiritual masters, gurus, sants, babas. Saints are worshipped as they are seen as people who connect the masses to God, the enlightened ones, the self-realized ones who have been elevated to be a god or as those in the line of a holy disciplic succession, as the representors of truth and God. In many temples, pujas (ceremonial worship) are performed even to the gurus as is done for the gods. If you ask for names of saints - they are just too many to list. There is no one formal process for the canonization of saints of the different sects. Some gurus are however more popular than others and have impacted a larger number of people.

2 Likes
(mike) #15

@CamKufner Hey God bless you sir.

I was born and raised Catholic 24 years, and have left a few years ago. Please keep in mind some HUGE assumptions that go along with believing that saints are answering prayers. Many people have listed already some basic bible facts that remind us, that there are zero instances of people or any apostles praying to the deceased (Rich man and Lazarus is a parable), and the fact that necromancy is strictly forbidden. You have to ASSUME that 1. the person you are praying to, is ACTUALLY in heaven. That would make you, your own God, in judging someone’s eternity for them. 2. That any supernatural response has to be from the one, true, Triune God. Maybe we can get more in-depth in the next thread about whether or not there should be “communication” between the earthly and the heavenly saints. I just want to show that supernatural power, signs and wonders can be carried out by Satan and his demons.

**Please remember, Catholics have religious dogmas and traditions that create their view of the bible, just like Jehova’s Witness’, Mormons, etc. We need to study the bible in the spirit of truth, and allow the word of God to shape our beliefs. We cannot first have beliefs, and make the bible fit those beliefs. They get the idea of prayer to/for dead from a non-inspired source called 2 Macabees. **

Jannes and Jambres were Pharaoh’s sorcerers that were capable of imitating Aaron and Moses’ sign. Exodus 7:10-11 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. 11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

A sorcerer in the book of Acts, who followed Paul and Silas, who actually “proclaimed” truths about them, was capable of fortune-telling and creating wealth. Remember not everyone who claims to be from God, even with signs, is of God. Acts 16:16And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Remember Lucifer is called the “god of this world”-2 Cor 4:4, and we are told time and time again that he and his workers are capable of super natural signs and wonders.

Revelation 16: 13-14 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing SIGNS, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
2 Thes 2: 8-9 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all POWER and SIGNS and LYING WONDERS.

Satan himself, in tempting Christ, was capable to transporting himself and Christ, to different places, and offering Jesus land and power. Matthew 4:8-11 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

2 Cor 11:14, And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Lucifer is the father of lies, and a master of the craft of deception. He of course, is going to pretend to be a bringer of light. (That is what Lucifer means) If we were praying to a demonic entity, should we expect a being from the kingdom of lies, to tell us so?

Remember, our foundation of unwavering truth is the bible, so all things must not contradict the bible. We can easily examine a real-life example of an apparition most of us have heard of, and see if it stand with, or against, the Word of God. First, establish the Gospel of Christ. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ; for it is the power of God unto SALVATION to everyone that BELIEVES; to the Jew first, then the Gentile. The “Good news”, the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ is that we have been salvaged, our souls have been SAVED from the wrath of God, from God’s judgement, by our FAITH in Him.

Mary of Fatima, “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To SAVE them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.”
So the “Mary” of Fatima, says that she has a new good news, that if we devote ourselves to her, many souls will be saved. She even backed it up with signs in the sky seen by thousands of people! What does the bible tell us to make of such an appearance?

Galatians 1:8, But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Even if an angel of heaven, preaches another gospel, another good news, another means of saving your soul… let him be accursed. Whatever apparition it was that was posing as the mother of Jesus in Fatima, will be eternally damned.

The point is, I believe your boss is getting his prayers answered, it’s just not by God.

(Kathleen) #16

Hi, @mmarino241! Thanks for you thoughts. You said you grew up Catholic, and I’m curious to know how you understood what was happening when people were praying to the saints? Do some Catholics actually believe that the saints themselves are answering prayers? I always thought that they were praying to the saint to intercede with God to answer their prayer. But I, admittedly, haven’t had much exposure to Catholic teaching.

2 Likes
(mike) #17

@KMac It all depends on who you ask, and what prayer is being prayed. Catholics believe both that the saints intercede for us to God, and that they fulfill the prayers. Each Saint is a “patron” of a specific task or need. Ex. You pray to St. Anthony if you lose something, You pray to St Jerome for school work, studies, etc.
In either case, both are biblically unfound. In Revelation, the passed saints have no persuasion of the will of the Father or the Lamb.
In most cases though, to answer your question, whether a person is praying for intercession, or directly to the power of a Saint, is usually revealed in the words of the prayer itself.
Ex. Prayer to St. Joseph (Father as was supposed of Jesus) "Protect in a special manner, with true fatherly love, the Pope and all bishops and priests in communion with the See of Peter. Be the protector of all who labor for souls amid the trials of this life, and obtain that all nations of the earth may docilely follow the church.
In this case, Joseph is implored to protect, exhert fatherly love, and be protector, of the church.
Ex. Prayer to Mary, “Holiest virgin, with ALL OF MY HEART, I venerate you above all the Angels and Saints in heaven as the daughter of the eternal Father, and I CONSECRATE to you MY SOUL , with its powers. … I consecrate to you my body with all its senses… I consecrate to you my heart with all of its affections…”
In this case, with the consecration of one’s whole being, to the virgin, there seems to be no glory left to give to the Lamb, to whom belongs all the glory and honor and power, forever and ever, Amen.

4 Likes
(Rebecca Fohner) #18

I do feel that most Catholics mean well. In Revelation 6:10, John sees the martyrs under God’s throne asking when the second coming will come. So that would indicate that those who have died in Christ know about what is happening here on earth. That said, does it make sense to try to speak to them, and would they hear? That I do not know.

What does not make sense to me is that Jesus came and gave us the example of how to be fully human and yet follow God perfectly and gave His very life so we could go directly to God. Why would you go through another when you can go directly to God Himself and lay your burdens at His feet, even something so small as “I lost ______?” Not to mention that Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit is the reason why any saint has any glory whatsoever. If He is the source from which any saint has glory, why go to the saints when you can go to the Glorious One?

2 Likes
(SeanO) #19

@RebeccaN The approach I have heard recommended by missionaries in South America is not to address the wrong theology too directly at first, but instead to study the Bible together with your Catholic neighbors and let the Word speak for itself. Invite them into community, if they are willing, and let the truth shine in their hearts. I think we must speak to each Catholic individually - there is a very wide variety of beliefs among Catholics - just like among Protestants, so it is essential not to stereotype or drop everyone into a single category. I once talked to a Catholic deacon who was evangelical in nearly all of his convictions, quite to my surprise.

1 Like
(Elizabeth Bays) #20

@CamKufner At one time in my life I was involved with a group that professed Christianity but practiced a form of pantheism. We prayed to angels and meditated to have personal meetings with Jesus to ask him direct questions and receive answers from him. There were many ‘coincidences’ and ‘answers’ to our prayers. We also paid a ‘prophet’ online once a week to receive a word from God which did at times, come off accurate to our situation.

I know for me personally, this was a seeking time in my life where I was looking for God and answers. This was attractive to me because it made me feel like I was engaging the spiritual world and could access answers to questions I had, that I could communicate with powers, that they were watching over me and giving me attention and that I could possibly know the future.

To arrive at the place where I’m at now, a recommitted follower of Jesus Christ and believer in God’s Word (the bible) involved different situations and people directed by God’s grace.

As many others have already pointed out in this discussion, there is access to the spiritual realm and evil can produce and perform as well as good can. The bottom line for me in realizing these forms of communication and alternative methods of finding God were wrong was coming to the realization that it’s not about me. It’s all about God and what Jesus did for me. And until I surrendered and fully acknowledged that, I was always looking to be in control and do for me, me, me. Once I committed to God, I now strive to do what He tells me to do and what He says is good and what’s evil according to His Word.

If I were in your situation with your boss I think I would understand to a degree where he’s coming from in his confidence in communicating with ‘Saints’. While I don’t agree it’s good or Biblical, I get where he’s coming from. I would direct my language and responses to be centered around my relationship with Jesus Christ and what all that has done for me, my lifestyle and my ability to talk with the Father. If the opportunity presents itself, I would be happy to discuss the spiritual realm and all the other information and scriptural references that have been shared here in this discussion that validate prayer through Jesus Christ to our Heavenly Father.
But I would want my boss to know that I am also confident- in my relationship and openness with God through His Son Jesus and therefore a follower and doer of His Word.
You may just be a witness to him in his journey of seeking (1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted, Apollos water, but God gave the increase).
You may be able to discuss these issues deeper and by God’s grace be witness to this man changing his mind.
I pray God leads you accordingly.

4 Likes