Un-born again?

(Corey Alan Patterson) #1

How can one be born again and then unborn again?

(Jimmy Sellers) #2

Are you asking how can a person go from being a believer to being a apostate? If that is what you mean here is a link to a resent discussion.

If this is the correct understanding of your question please add your thoughts? What prompted you to ask this question?

(Corey Alan Patterson) #3

I just wonder why people can study the same Bible and come up with two different views.

(Kathleen) #4

@Corey - I wonder the same thing as well a lot. Ha! But I’m with @Jimmy_Sellers in struggling to understand what exactly you’re asking. Are you wondering how someone who begins to follow Jesus (or be ‘born again’) can then decide no longer to follow Jesus (or become ‘un-born again’)? We just need a bit of clarification. :slight_smile:

(Corey Alan Patterson) #5

Yes, if Jesus says "truly ,truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life (John 5:24). Or again, "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life… He who believes in Him is not judged, he who does not believe has been judged already (John 3:16, 18). And again, "all that the Father gives Me will come to Me (John 6:37) and then he goes on to say "I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given me, I lose nothing, but raise them up on the last day. And then in John 10:27- 29 Jesus says, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. And then in Hebrews 6:13, 16-18, we read that since God “could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself… For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness this of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that… We who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the Hope set before us.”

this will probably definitely sound foolish but I’m pretty sure I’ll struggle with this for the rest of my life. I have Pastors in my life that believe different things and they make very good Arguments with Scripture for both views. Some Believe you can lose your salvation , falling from Grace by renouncing your faith, and others believe that if we renounce our “faith” we relly never had saving faith in the first place. The belief that God’s actions and, not ours, is primary in Salvation, and Christ’s Mercy is unfailing. I truly Believe a genuine follower of the True Christ will persevere because of Christ’s firm hold on me. As 1st John 2:19 says, “they went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belong to us.”

So I guess what I’m saying is I’m struggling much with this topic and until I master the Scriptures myself I will never be able fully trust any one side because both sides come up with different conclusions; one believing that we can fall from grace, and the other believing that God will not lose any that come to Him in Repentance and faith.

(Corey Alan Patterson) #6

what I will say is I trust Christ, the One who died for my sins making reparation for all my sins, even unbelief. I believe and I ask Him to help me with my unbelief. I don’t disbelieve Him. But there are times I fall vary vary short in believing He will carry me and thats why alot of times I get wrapped up in trying to control situations. I believe that is unbelief in a sense. I truly believe in His work. His death and resurrection. I believe that He does not contradict Himself. He remains faithful. I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. It’s just really frustrating to see how there are so many different views and conclusions, even in the body if Christ. But, that is the gift of free will right. And then someone will say " yea and we can freely choose death again." That, to me makes no sense that somebody has been given the gift of life and then freely chooses death again (where else would we go), but I guess we seen that happen to the first Adam (and many more). Again, I could go back and forth all day in my mind about this topic. Just makes me want to leave it alone. Thanks all

(C Rhodes) #7

@Corey. I realize you signed off the topic several days ago, but, I wanted to encourage you to not be dismayed at the limits of humanity. GOD gets our limitations. GOD does not hold our insufficiency against us, we should not do so either.

You may not have a clear understanding of why we can be so completely different; nor attain one in the near future. However, in the scope of all that goes wrong in our world, don’t allow the confusion or miscalculations of fellow believers to be your Achilles heel.

The plans the Lord has for your life are too profoundly great, and the enemy will always seek to stop your progress. But through the heart of GOD we can love and support one another despite our differences. What an amazing example for our society today. Respect and love despite differences. Be encouraged!

(Corey Alan Patterson) #8

Thank you… It does make me want to cry… Thanks again for the encouragement and support. I will not lose heart… I pray and continue to trust Him. I need so much prayer. I dont want to burn out, I hope not to lose my zeal so to speak. I do get disheartened about this topic and more . Grace and peace through our Lord Jesus Christ… Amen

I know that I will have to go through many hardships and trust Him, knowing Him, by working hard through it and resting in His promises will only be possible by submitting to Christ and His will for my life. May our Lord Jesus, the Christ Himself, and God our Father, Who Loves Us and by His grace give us eternal encouragement and good hope, may He encourage our hearts and strengthen us in every good deed and word. Amen

I need so much prayer.

(C Rhodes) #9

@Corey. Consider your heart joined in the mantle of prayer! I trust GOD concerning you as I do for myself.

(Phoebe Baumgardner) #10

Praying for you son

(Kathleen) #11

@Corey! I am so sorry that I lost this thread a couple of weeks ago. I am encouraged by your heart’s desire to remain with God, and I think you should be too! If the great fear of your life is that you will become hard towards God and walk away (as it has been in my life for so long!), then I actually think this is evidence that God has begun His good work in you. And guess what? HE WILL BE FAITHFUL TO COMPLETE IT. :raised_hands: That verse (Phil 1:6) has brought me so so much comfort in those dark times. A God of love does not abandon His children.

See also 2 Corinthians 8:6:

…as [God] had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace.

Praying for you, friend. Do continue to reach out here with any questions or desire for clarification. We are here with you! :slight_smile:

(Corey Alan Patterson) #12

You make a good point, and yes that is one of my great fears and maybe that’s why this topic is so touchy to me because It would grieve me much to know the Author of life and trust Him for my salvation and then reject Him as my life-giving Savior and hardened my heart toward my Lord who willingly died the death I deserve so that I can live. As Simon Peter answered, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life…” (John6:68)
In Christ’s love
Thank you for responding.

(Matthew Mingus) #13

Your passion for Christ is obvious in your words and I think it is wonderful that you are seeking these answers. I definitely think it is important to always evaluate and understand where you are in your faith. This helps you to grow and become stronger as you seek to learn and understand God’s will for your life. I certainly think that the very fact that you are so concerned with this issue is an indication that you are in the right place. I do not believe that anyone who was hardening themselves to God and rejecting Him would be very much, if at all, concerned about it.
It can certainly be hard to understand how so many different people can take the same Bible and get so many different viewpoints from it. I think that comes from having only a partial or fragmented understanding of God’s word. If we just take a verse here or a verse there, it is easy to become confused, lost, and frustrated. But If we seek the Lord in prayer and ask for wisdom and understanding, I believe that He opens up our hearts and minds to the wisdom that is in His word.
As far as all the different viewpoints, and paths, and ideas that people get from the Bible, Jesus sums it all up in one statement. John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." No matter what view someone may have about the Bible, Jesus said it very clearly. There is one way, one path, and no other will get us to the Father.
Take heart Corey, I think you are in the right place, and seeking the right answers. God bless you and I will pray for you. Thank you so much for sharing your passion for Christ and your concerns.


(Jennifer Spencer) #14

Wow your question speaks deeply to a question that is plaguing me lately. The difference is my “unbelieving” moments lately center on His Word and His Truth and leave me feeling like a) if He and His Word aren’t true then life is just sad and depressing (even though I am blessed materially and with relationships, we all know that nothing compares to the love of Jesus); or b) I am counted as those who are “offended by Him” bc I am struggling to trust/believe in His Word and Who He said He is, and His love is no longer for me (in essence, like you are asking, have I lost my salvation). Keep in mind that this is not somewhere I WANT to venture, so the whole thing has my mind all jumbled. Then there is the still small voice of reason that says God is not a God of chaos, and the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. I don’t really know where I’m going in commenting on your post, except that it definitely sounds like you are still trusting Him for your salvation.

(Kathleen) #15

Hi, @Jen! Just wanted to say that your heartfelt response moved me very much. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am curious to know (if you don’t mind me asking) a little bit more about your moments of ‘unbelief’. You say that they are lately centering on His Word/Truth, and I was wondering what questions are there that leave you struggling to believe? Maybe the community here could help shed some light on things… :slight_smile:

Secondly, I also want you to encourage you! You were saying that your 'unbelieving moments leave you feeling like

If I understand you correctly, you seem to fear that your unbelief will cause God to reject you? If that is an accurate reading (??), I then wanted to ask you, do you actually disbelieve, or are you struggling to believe? (There is a difference.) It is one thing to harbour wilfull disbelief in your heart; it is another thing entirely to wrestle and come to grips with your unbelief and doubt.

In my own experience, I have found it to be true that struggling and wrestling are a vital part of the development and strengthening of faith. To be ‘offended’ or challenged by Jesus is crucial to discipleship, and is actually evidence of His love for me. I don’t think we are meant to just accept and never question. Doubt and skepticism do bring their relational challenges, but is not something for which he will reject us. He doesn’t wish us to remain in doubt (see James 1:6), but I think he does want us to engage with out doubts and not be afraid of having them.

Does that resonate with you, or have I misunderstood entirely? :slight_smile: