What if I don’t want to live with God I mean there is no option like that, according to Bible (from my very limited knowledge) one can live forever with God and Christ if they accept His gift and after being saved, they should try there best to improve and follow God’s way to get into heaven, but what if I don’t accept His gift, not because I don’t recognise Him as God or I want to rebel him by doing more sin purposefully but simply I don’t want to live or exist after my earthly life and also don’t want to go to Hell.
It seems like there are no other option because either i have to accept Him or I will be send to Hell, and yes I know Bible says we are sinner and we deserve separation from God and all that theology, i know that and God give His sacrifice, but again it seems like some sort of TRAP with only one option and the other one is hell.
It’s like someone want to give you something but there are only 2 options, either take it or I will be killed and there is no option of refusing to take it, so if maybe let’s say free will is a real thing, it doesn’t make any sense if i don’t have this option. I know it’s very hard question but thanks for reading it, God bless.
@HeroGuy Is there a particular reason that you do not want to go to Heaven? What do you think of when you think of Heaven?
Let me ask you a few questions:
Do you want to love other people sacrificially?
Do you want to make the world a better place?
Do you enjoy music, food with friends and games?
If the answer is yes, then you want to go to Heaven. Some people think Heaven is a spiritual state of joy and nothing more - but the Bible says that Heaven is New Creation - we will have resurrected bodies and enjoy all of the beautiful things of this life without the brokennness caused by sin. Everything good - everything beautiful - has its source in God. If we reject God we reject the Source of all that is good and incorruptible and the only alternative is corruption and decay, which is what the Bible calls the second death / damnation / is the consequence of judgment.
If we read Scripture, we see that God created all the beautiful things we love in this life and that the New Creation that we call Heaven will be filled with these things and more - all in the light of God’s joy and presence. We see even in Isaiah that the Lord will prepare a feast for His people - He is the Lord of the feast - of joy and peace and glory!
Isaiah 25:6-8 - On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
7 On this mountain he will destroy
the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;
8 he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people’s disgrace
from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken.
Here is a sermon by Tim Keller pointing out that Jesus is ‘Lord of the Feast’ who wants us to delight in His good gifts:
I really recommend reading ‘The Last Battle’ by C. S. Lewis in which he has some beautiful depictions of Heaven:
“All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before”
“The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.”
“Joy is the serious business of Heaven” - C. S. Lewis
Here is a thread discussing the concept of Hell and final judgment you may find helpful:
Are those thoughts helpful? The Lord Jesus grant you a heart to see His glory and to understand His goodness, beauty and plan for eternity.
Anas, you are asking not only hard questions, but it seems that these are really very personal questions for you. I want to take some time here with you, if that is okay. It is a bit hard to do this over Connect, because obviously we cannot see each other, talk face-to-face, hear each others’ voices, etc., and, therefore, we are limited by the technology as to really getting to know each other; to see what is really going on. I’m not sure that your question is purely an intellectual one, perhaps it is, but I suspect it is more.
So, if you don’t mind me asking, what is it that you desire most? And why?
You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to, but it might be relevant to getting to the bottom of your question.
@HeroGuy may I ask if you’re a new believer? And if so, what is your understanding of what it means to choose to agree with God or not agree with God? What about it feels like a trap set up by the Creator of all things? What do you understand of consequences or inevitable outcomes based on the decisions we make?
Hey, how are you? Very interesting question you pose. While i suspect that there is more to it than the question itself as some other members have chosen to try to point out, I will try to complement their responses to you by trying to answer your question at face value
My initial thought is that it is based on a bit of understandable confusion based on how we talk about heaven and hell as places out there somewhere different from where we are right now (in time and space). This leaves the impresión that somehow we could chose to not go there, or at least should be able to chose - either to stay here or simply disappear. Its as if you are standing in point C and asking why am i being forced to chose between going to point A or B. Why not just stay in C or simply disappear.
From what I see, I think God makes some things pretty clear.
(1) we are eternal beings (at least from our moment of concepción on forward - spiritually inmortal one could say), so we will spend eternity somewhere.
(2) free will is real, but like all exercise of free will, it can only be exercised within the given limitations of our reality. Just like you can not just “will” that you have wings and can fly, or that you can not “will” yourself into being a tree, etc. We can exercise our free will within reality and our grasp of it.
So I think your answer will come by the way of understanding the reality that we are spiritual inmortal beings, that we are separated from God, that God has provided a path back to Him, and that we can “chose” or reject (ignore) that path. Heaven is a real place, but I think we really just have no way to comprehend it. In a way it is just a place holder word for being with God. Hell is described in various ways in the Bible and I also think it is a real place, but that we simply can not understand it completely. But the defining element of Hell is the complete absence of the goodness of God. One could say it is a place holder word, for choseing to not be with God in eternity.
So in reality you are not in point C, you are in a temporarily improved point B, sustained by God’s goodness, so that you may have the chance to hear about, understand, and chose His path to back to Him - Point A. If we fail to chose Him, we just stay in point B and point B is going done hill really fast.
so well, its settle then if thats the case we dont have free will, even if we have we cant use its full potential because we dont have all the options, its what free will suppose to be the ability to choose every options
Hi Anas, think about it this way. In the same way that you are alive or you are dead. You might say “I don’t want to be alive, but I don’t want to be dead…” however there is no inbetween state, you are one or the other. There is no third option, it simply doesn’t exist. You can’t choose it because there is nothing there to choose.
Where I think there is a misunderstanding here is not regarding Heaven or Hell, but rather it is on the nature of judgement. We have all perpetrated a crime (sin) against God that demands justice. Jesus paid the penalty for that crime so that we can be judged according to either His work or ours (if you deny Him). If you face judgement on your own merit, you will be found lacking and in transgression of God’s law and so necessarily warrant punishment. If you have accepted Christ, you are free of the penalty of the crime because the penalty has already been paid.
To say that there should be a 3rd option is to say that there should not be judgement for your life. You’re effectively saying: “I don’t want any part of this.” But unfortunately, anyone who has been alive has to face judgement for how they used that life. There simply is no pass on that.
Romans 14:10 says “For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. For it is written ‘as I live, says the LORD, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.’” (Emphasis mine).
I think you’ll find a lot of the answers you seek in the book of Romans. I would spend some time there reasoning through those scriptures.
@HeroGuy. Maybe it clarifies the questions if you considered that free will applies to our personal choices, not GOD’s. My free will only involve decisions that affect me. GOD was GOD before you and I. GOD remains GOD throughout all time.
We were given a world that we immediately began to destroy. The sacrifice given by CHRIST established an escape hatch from our fallen world. It is our choice to accept the way out of our mutually assured destruction. But don’t you think it is unfair to try and renegotiate the escape route, because we decide it is GOD’s burden to give us multi choices until we find the one we would be happy with. We are admittedly responsible for the fallen condition of our world, but we don’t want the responsibility for the fall?
If you were rescuing a drowning person, would you pause and allow them to dictate how they should be rescued? If you stood at the edge of a skyscraper and decided to jump, wouldn’t you expect the laws of gravity to come immediately into play?
Our free will does not suspend any laws of consequence. If that seems too limited, perhaps the true consideration should be the rescue, not what comes next. Just rescue me. I will then have the privilege of enjoying what comes next. If I choose not to be rescued, then my rejection gives consent to the consequences I have chosen not to avoid.
Life is in God. There is no ‘life’ apart from God. The wages of sin is death because apart from God there is no life and sin separates us from God.
“Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. How many hours are in a mile? Is yellow square or round? Probably half the questions we ask - half our great theological and metaphysical problems - are like that.” C. S. Lewis
you are missing the point. When a mother gives birth to a child, the child doesn’t get to choose his/her birth mother. but they still have the free will whether to listen to their mother or not. Its similar with our relationship with God. We can choose to follow him or not, but we aren’t forced to. If we don’t have free will, why are there people who are so against him?
I suggest this short link:
It is true and settled that we are created beings. Satan and his host made their choices. It is also true that Jesus in the scriptures and Apostle Paul (1 Corin. 15:38-46) made it clear that our choices here and now determine our reward opportunities in this life remaining and eternity beyond. To not love what the Creator is (love, light, truth, integrity, learning, adventure, leadership, spiritual growth, etc.) is to make a lesser choice. We inherit what we prepared ourselves to receive. Not all rewards are the same, are they? We chose to come to this earth and the cross shows clearly what happens to us and others due to a incomplete compliance with the celestial laws of God’s Kingdom. The prison house is a place of final learning and decision about this issue. It has an end but the consequences carry on. God’s magnificent offer is worth all our investment. Apostle Paul encouraged us to win the race and greatest prize. May it be the same for you and all of us.