I’m just thinking. Before God created the devil, because he is sovereign, he knew the devil would be evil. So why create him in the first place? Or does this also fall under free will?
Welcome njomikami, And Thank You.
For me it seems that only by means of evil could the hands that broke bread for the hungry, had brought strength to withered arms and legs, that tenderly touched the heads of little children could then have nails driven through them by evil cruel men to suffer the excruciating pains of crucifixion that the Son might be glorified .
That one day , just as His own disciples first gazed upon those scared hands in commensurate inspiration , we will gaze upon the beauty of those scars in divine joy ourselves .
" He showed them his hands and his feet ."
( Luke 24:40)
Hi, @njomikami . Welcome to Connect
Regarding your question, I think you have made the correct assumption that His Creation
When God thought of creating, He intended the angels and the people to be free moral agents. Thus, He did not tamper with their innate moral fiber.
I guess it should suffice us to know that it must be so and that He never leave us with a situation beyond His control. Whatever havoc this Satan could have wreaked on God’s Creation, God is fully able to restore in the consummation of things.
Below is a link to a related topic you might consequently ask.
Highlighting for you also one of the best answers in the thread.
Hope this helps
Thank you so much. Yes it helps
Perhaps it’s not quite correct to say that God “created the devil.” He created angels to serve him, and apparently they had to moral capacity to choose to serve or not. Many Bible scholars believe that the following portion of Isaiah 14, refer not only to a current king on earth, but also to a particular angel in heaven, here called “morning star.” The passage related how he coveted God’s place as the supreme Being, and rebelled. God cast him out of heaven. He was not alone in his rebellion, but deceived many other angels to join him. He was not created this way, he chose to rebel. And he used a similar deception when he tempted Eve and Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, so that “they could be like God.”
How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
Satan, the Deceiver ( “a liar and the father of lies” as Jesus called him), the Destroyer, also known by other names in the Book of Revelation set about simply to spoil and then destroy everything he could of God’s creation, smear God’s name and reputation, misrepresent him, and so gather as many as he could to turn their back on God. Nothing in and of God’s creation can continue to exist without God sustaining/maintaining it. Evil, by turning against God, is ultimately self-destructive. God in his love and patience works, through forgiveness and healing, for reconciliation (as shown by the death of Jesus on the cross). But His love (and His power) are not coercive, so ultimately those who do not want to live in the presence of God, will go to the place He made for this “away from His presence.” God does not force anyone to love him.
John, in Revelation, describes a time when Satan will be bound and imprisoned for 1000 years. At the end of this period Satan is released! Why? It sounds crazy!
One line of reasoning is that God is being true to Himself and His character. Satan’s actions were to enslave and destroy. God is the opposite, so His final act in the story is to set (even) Satan free - whereupon Satan gathers yet another force against God through deception to fight against God. In that battle (which never really becomes a battle against God and Jerusalem) his forces realise they have been deceived and turn against Satan the Deceiver. They all turn against one another. Satan ends up in the place God prepared for him and those who wish to follow him … by their own choice. The passage in Revelation does not say that God cast him there - it says “he was cast in…” God remains true to His Person and Character all the way to the end. We need to understand how self-destructive sin is.
When God created his angels they were good. When He created Adam and Eve, they were good. He did not create anything evil. They/we became evil by the coveting of God’s power - wishing to usurp His place.
I agree with this reasoning and im taking awayly the fact that "we became evil " its true we are the ones who chose to turn away from him when he created us to be good. This free will I think was both a gift and a curse…no?
Reading your response makes me think I was possibly a little hasty in my wording. (it happens too often )
As far as I can recall, there is nowhere in Scripture that says that angels were made in the image of God, certainly not in the sense that mankind is described that way. It appears that angels had some sort of freewill in the sense that the “star of the morning” rose up against God, coveting his place and his power. There may even different categories and kinds of angels - certainly Revelation suggests that there are quite a lot of different types of created beings. We don’t know with 100% certainty if the fallen angels have any possibility to repent (that may be an idea for a thread on this platform - perhaps there already is one).
But humans were created in the image of God, and the very remarkable things is what God said of them AFTER they had eaten of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3: 22 quotes Him as saying
"And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. "
The implication here is that apart from all we lost in the “Fall” we how had something (of God’s likeness*) we apparently didn’t have before. Certainly, if we interpret “knowing” as referring to experiential knowledge, we learned the hard way, what good and evil really are. We certainly became estranged from God, and have had every reason to continue to use the term “sinners” of ourselves. Certainly all of our sin is evil; but Christians have long distinguished between God’s love of the sinner while at the same time hating the sin. So I was probably not entirely correct to write that “we became evil” - rather we became “evil-doers.” The gift of free will is only a curse when we insist and persist in making the wrong choices.
(* I think God experienced evil when, for example, Satan rebelled against him. He did not experience evil by doing anything evil himself! I am sure he was profoundly disturbed by Satan’s rebellion, and what that had done to Satan himself and to all those who joined him. Satan was cast out of heaven “to earth” and as the Scriptures say, ever since he "has prowled around like an animal looking for people (and all creation) to destroy. It’s not surprise that God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of that fruit!)