Why did God create us if we would have a choice to choose Him or someone else? If He knew the dangers, why did He go further? Is it out of selfishness?
Hello @Sudor welcome, since this is your first post atRZIM connect could you share a little about who you are and were you are from? The welcome to connect is the best place to do that. It is great to meet you.
As a believer in Christ and the bible the infallible word, God being all knowing and us created in His image, God would desire to have someone love Him who chose to not some who had to love Him which is what we would choose as well. Yes God could have chosen to make us love Him, but In His greatness, He like us would want to be loved through an act of the will rather than a need. God is love and love is a decision we make and He made.
In many cultures of old love was mandated through obedience, or conscience is that really what genuine love is?
To further reveal who, why, what to my answer Gods chooses love, please consider this?
If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless. When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 NLT
Hope this helps, and again, welcome.
@Sudor Welcome to the Connect community. What thought provoking questions you have asked. There is one in particular I would like to try and answer.
The Bible directly addresses the certainty that we do not understand all the ways of the Lord.
“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?” (Isaiah 40.13, Romans 11.34, 1 Corinthians 2.16). Another passage from Deuteronomy 29.29 tells us, “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.”
When the ways of God are hidden or seem to contradict His character, we look at what we do know. We look at what He has said to us in His Word and demonstrated by His actions.
God did know the dangers. He knew them all and He knew them better than us. If you are familiar with the Biblical story of the serpent in the garden with Adam and Eve, the first thing that becomes apparent is how quickly they fell prey to the deceiver and his deceptive speech and promises. Were it not for God walking in the garden calling out to Adam, who was in hiding, and God allowing the physical and spiritual consequences of sin to take effect, we would still not know the dangers.
God’s preparation for this danger started before the foundation of the world when the Godhead agreed that the Son would go further by going to the cross. A foreshadowing of what was to come was first demonstrated in the garden when God killed an animal to cover the nakedness of Adam and Eve. God sent the Lamb of God to cover the sin that had stripped humanity bare; to those who by their free will choice say yes to his demonstration of selfless love. His love went further than our sin.
Without question there are many things that we do not understand. That has always been true. What is more true is the Gospel. Jesus died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day. And that the desire of His heart for every single soul is that all will come to the knowledge of the truth.
I appreciate your questions and I am interested to know your thoughts about these things if you would like to share. Thank you again for your post.
Grace and peace,
The Apostle John was known as the “disciple whom Jesus loved.” Certainly he himself felt that. And in his first letter he wrote “We love him, because he first loved us.” (ch 4:19). @mgaplus4 cited 1 Corinthians 13, which I take to be God’s own “self-portrait.” He describes what true love is.
When I first saw that this chapter was not (just) the kind of love that I am expected to show to others, but the love that God shows us all, I was flabbergasted … because in it I also saw the phenomenal reality that "God trusts us; God believes in us!!! We preach to others “believe in Jesus Christ; believe in God…” and so seldom tell people that HE believes in them, HE believes in us!!!
It shocked me at first that I dared to think such a thing, and began to look to see if there was any evidence of it in the scriptures. And bingo! There is was - in the very beginning, God entrusted humankind with his garden, his earth; he gave responsibility to humankind to get to know his creatures well enough that we could give them appropriate names. And He gave them clear instructions on what they should and shouldn’t do.
Fast forward to Matthew’s Gospel - what do we find? God trusted a couple of teenagers with HIS infant baby son; during a time in which the country was under foreign occupation, and under a jealous and evil puppet king - who had 2000 baby boys killed trying to get at Jesus. He trusted these teenagers to continue “bringing up” His son while refugees in Africa! All the way through scriptures we find evidence of God trusting us, God believing in us, and never giving up on us!
That is taking risks! God was not afraid of “failing,” (or actually of our failing) because in His creativity He simply goes on pursuing His plans, and uses our failures to build on, turning them into something He can use constructively and positively.
The opening questions above hide in themselves the idea that God did something he shouldn’t have done, that somehow he made a miscalculation. Hidden in it too, is our assumption that creating a being that could not do wrong would have been better - in other words, that we could have done a better job than He did! But if he had chosen to do that, we would not be “in his image.” God made a very interesting statement AFTER Adam and Eve sinned: “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." (ch 3:22) Until they made a moral choice, they would not be like God! They were challenged by the Serpent, they had to make a moral decision, they made the wrong one. But they made the moral choice. And in the act of making a moral decision, they - in that respect became like God in a way they had not been before.
The idea that the disobedience of Adam and Eve was God’s failure, is actually rather absurd. He didn’t fail, nor did he “fail them.” It’s not God’s fault that we sin. God made mankind in His image, gave them responsibilities with clear instructions. In what way did God fail? Or to put it another way, in what way was it His fault?
Then the next surprise comes along. He hears us say “It was God’s fault … because He didn’t make us so we couldn’t sin.” Our logic was/is corrupted, but in His love, He again takes the initiative and says, “No when I created you, I could look at you and say “this creation is good. It is just the way I meant it to be.” But because you failed, I will take the blame if that’s what it takes to bring you back to myself, and to what you are supposed to be… and what you WILL be.” And that’s what He did through His death on the cross.
So nobody has an excuse, not even the one who says it was God’s fault that we humans sinned, and continue to sin.
God ALWAYS takes the initiative in any act of goodness, grace and love. ALWAYS!
Hi @Sudor, Welcome to Connect.
We have an amazing God!
Why would God give us the option of choosing Him or someone or something else? It’s a good question to ponder and one that I believe has a very rational answer.
I don’t know if you can relate to this or not, but I will try to explain the best way I can. How would you think someone would know that you really loved them? Wouldn’t it be if you chose them out of the many possible options that are before you? Choosing someone or something allows us to evidence our love for that person or thing.
I honestly believe and see that God, who does really know what is best for us, wants us to come to Him, to establish a loving relationship with Him based upon our decision to love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Could He force this on us? Sure, He can do anything (in accordance with His character) but when making us in His image, He gave us the option of loving or rejecting Him. That is very loving, isn’t it?
Lastly, is it out of selfishness? God is not selfish but He is jealous, for His name and for His people. Why? Because He knows what is best. What do you think is best?
Can I just say a big AMEN to this and proclaim His exceeding and abundance towards us His crestion. As well as the rest of the post.
Not to be taken the wrong way or misunderstood, but selfishness is a good thing in our relationship with Christ. He doesn’t want to share us with others, and we can be selfish with Him because there is more than enough of Him as we work out our own salvation with Him which is unique to each of us.
There are four possible ways God could have created the world.
- An amoral world where nothing is right or wrong.
- A moral world where the creatures will only choose the good.
- A moral world with free will where there is the possibility of choosing good and evil.
Only in the 3rd possible world is love possible. An amoral world would have no meaning to live in. The 2nd kind of possible world would be nothing but a puppet show.