Why should creatures have the burden of existence forced on them without their consent?

In my interactions with angry Atheists and depressed Christians alike, there echoes the question which C. S. Lewis had raised, ‘Why should creatures have the burden of existence forced on them without their consent?’
Even the teacher in Ecclesiastes, who calls most things as vanity, mentions in 9:4 and 10 - Anyone who is among the living has hope -even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. However, I am not able to internalize the reasons why existence is better than non-existence, nor am I able to respond to such questions or lament.
[Background: In a conversation with an atheist, the person claimed that if this is the kind of world that he is expected to live in, he prefers to have not been created at all. Thus, he was angry with God for creating him without consent, to live a life of submission/suffering which he never wanted to in the first place. In a totally different scenario, I have also heard many old and ailing people worry about their existence and prefer that their life be taken away at that moment. I understand that asking for death (and thus ceasing to physically exist) is different from asking for inexistence. Yet, I would like your help, for these questions about existence.]
I’ve heard William Craig also mentioning, existence is better than non-existence. I’ve heard logical fallacy arguments of how one can expect to give ‘consent’ before existence. But, I have still not got that ‘Yeah, I got it, I will be able to articulate it’ moment with any of those answers. Could any one of you help?


Hello Christina,

These are certainly some difficult question/situations to deal with and I can understand how difficult it can be, especially in the moment, to really articulate an answer to them. In Ecclesiastes, as you mentioned, the author states anyone who is among the living has hope. If one never existed, then what hope would be necessary? Quite frankly…none. No hope is necessary for something/someone that does not exist, precisely for the reason that it does not exist( did I just say that?). Debating about preferring not to exist is, as you already know, quite a fallacy. You do exist, and any going about complaining about that fact is really quite pointless, you cannot change it anymore than you could have had a say in it before you began.

You mentioned the atheist who was angry at the type of world in which he had been subjected to living. He was angry that this world was in the state that it was and that he would have preferred to not be alive rather than to live in such a miserable world. I have to say that as far as his view on the world, he is quite right. It is not the most hospitable place to be alive in. But he used a phrase I find interesting…“that if this was the kind of world he was expected to live in, he prefers not to have been created.” Well the interesting thing is, this is not the kind of world that he was expected to live in at all. In fact, God created quite a different kind of world, which was free of sickness, pain, disease, death, etc…, in a word: Perfect. The problem came when we, human beings, decided to disobey God and brought sin and death and all the things that go along with it into the world. This is most certainly not the world that God intended us to live in, and the Bible gives us a very in-depth story of how He intends to redeem us and the world and make it all back into what He first intended. But for now we live in this world that is full of pain and death and we wonder why. Well that is because we have been given a second chance. God sent His only Son in an effort to save us from the punishment that we deserve for our sins. So, why are we forced to live in this world? To give us a chance at the better one that is awaiting those who accept His salvation…that is why. God desires that we should live in a world that is free of all this death and pain, so much so that He is going to create a whole new one(Revelations 21), and we are being given time to make our choice before the final judgement comes upon us and it is too late. It is a life that is full of suffering he is right there, but submission? Acceptance of Christ and the redemption that He offers are the only true way to be free of the bonds of sin and of eternal death, which is the payment for our sin.

As to the question of old and ailing people who are wishing that their life would be taken away at that moment, this question has many answers. I can understand an older person who is in pain anxiously awaiting the time that they will pass into a place where they will not be in pain. The question is whether they are believers in Christ or not. For one it makes sense to anxiously desire to be with Christ and to have a new body that is free of pain and the consequences of a dying world. For the other, it is probably more a desire to be free of the pain, or a depression/hopelessness that they feel in being so close to the end of their lives. It is painful to think of such things too, but as long as they are still alive it is never too late to pray for them and share the Gospel with them.

So is it better to exist? Or is it better to not exist? Well I do not feel that I can speak to one of those. I feel that it is better to exist, but I am a believer in Christ and I have a great amount of hope and joy in my salvation that He has given me. We were created to share a relationship with Him and it is the most amazing and wonderful thing when we do. But if we reject Him, how will we find meaning, or hope, or an explanation for the ailments of this world? That is where I lose sight of my ability to explain such things. I cannot imagine how to live without the relationship I share with Christ. I look back on my life before I knew Him and I shudder at how hopeless and lost I was in those days. It is terrifying to imagine my whole life being lived that way. With no hope whatsoever, nor any explanation for my existence, or why my life is so painful. But when I invited Christ into my life, it was a complete change in my perspective. Life still hurts yes, but I understand it and I know that this is only a temporary time. I think Paul says it best in Romans 8, " For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience."

It is easy to see why when we do not have this hope, it is so hopeless. We are living in a doomed world, but we were meant for more, created for more, yet we do not have it at this present time. But we will, that is the hope that we follow, that we seek in Christ. It changes us from the inside out, it gives us hope above all hope, and even these present sufferings are not worth to comparing to the redemption that awaits us in Christ.

I hope that this answer helps you to find some talking points to start off with and if you have any other questions please do not hesitate to ask them. Above all Christina, pray for those who you are trying to reach. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths” - Proverbs 3:5-6. God bless you Christina and I will be praying for you that you find the ways to articulate your answers that you are looking for. Thank you.


@ChristinaGraceDanny Great question :slight_smile: I think Christianity offers the most nuanced answer of any worldview. Existence is not what it was meant to be, but through Christ all things are being made new. We should be thankful for the good things God sustains in this world, and yet when we suffer most deeply we have a hope that goes beyond this life. The Garden of God—the paradise we long for—can be found in Christ. This broken world does not have the final say. Christ has conquered the world.

  • existence was meant to be very good, but this world is now marred by sin
  • Jesus recognizes that this life has much suffering, but He also offers us hope through His own death and resurrection - He has conquered the world!
  • even non-Christians recognize the beautiful opportunities this world provides for relationships, discovery, and adventure in spite of its brokenness - there are many things to be thankful for (though someone very ill may struggle on this point)

John 16:33 - “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

2 Cor 4:16-18 - Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.


I really appreciate how you worded this: [I think a lot of people can relate]

Here’s my attempt to encapsulate and address what I see as several key issues on this topic.

Our Existence is an assignment.
Our Identity is a solvable mystery.
Our willingness to live these things out according to their purpose and function it is as voluntary as we take it.

To explain this somewhat further I would submit the following:

Is it possible that a great many things which are most impossible to accomplish, are not resolved by learning how to “do” but rather how to “be”? Paul’s instruction to Timothy to “study to show yourself approved…” is succeeded in the same chapter with the wisdom that: “the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth (2 Tim 2:24)”.

Overwhelmed by a most impossible assignment a frustrated student once exclaimed “This is impossible!! I can’t do it and I won’t do it!!.. How am I supposed to do “w”, “X”, “Y”, “Z” when I don’t know “T”? and when “U” and “V” are working against me” he protested. To which the teacher answered: "Here is how: Be patient. Keep listening. Be truthful. Do your homework. Study the books I’ve given you. Be gentle, Don’t be afraid. But be careful. Truly consider what I say. Let the guidance of “how to be” lead you in the fulfilling adventures of finding what to say, what to do, and how to do it.


@ChristinaGraceDanny Hey!

I actually just heard a lecture on this topic recently from a rabbi. To try to boil down the lecture, he was basically saying that people who say such things, like “I didn’t ask to be born”, or “I don’t need this”, are completely right! If we never existed, we wouldn’t need to eat, sleep, work, or any of the other tasks of living. So, if we really don’t need this, then who does? The answer simply put, is God does, because He needs something. He created the world, He brought you into the world, it’s His plan, He’s simply asking you if you’d like to join Him, because He needs you.


Dear Brother Jonathon,

Before I read any more comments here, I would like to share something I just read again, the other day, and emailed to another Brother.

I know it is preferrd that we express our own words. Well, that is the sense I get from trying to understand some of the guidelines in this community.

I don’t presently have the wherewithal to do so, but I beleive this quote so pertinent.

Actually, a minuscule part of a penny’s worth, I wrote, and then a quote -

God The Father and God The Son and God The Spirit, did not and do not need anything, period. John Piper talks about Jonathon Edwards talking about God, and likening God to a Fountain, I guess, and saying, “It is no fault of a fountain that it overflows. God.”

Oh, I found this, it’s short, I’ll put it here, but I can’t understand the last sentence.


A Fountain Inclined to Overflow

Let me think out loud for a minute.

Jesus is the Radiance of God’s Glory (Hebrews 1:3). He is not a second Light shining as brightly as the Father. And He is not simply the object of the Father’s shining. He is the Father’s Shining.

Similarly, Jesus is the eternal Word of the Father (John 1:1). He is not a second Word, as vocal as the Father. He is not simply the hearer of God’s Word. He is the Father’s communicative expression – a Voice crying out.

In other words, God is outgoing. And eternally so. The triune God flows outwards even before creation. Creation becomes the in-time expression of the Trinity’s eternal life.

But, you might ask the question, Doesn’t this make God dependent on creation? Since He shines out, perhaps creation is necessary as the thing (even the darkness) to be illuminated. Since He speaks out, perhaps creation is necessary as an audience for the Word. Have we made creation necessary to the expression of God’s eternal nature?

Well, before I attempt a half-answer to that, let’s realise that there are problems on the other side of this question. You see if the triune God is not eternally radiant then what He reveals in, through and to His creation is something different to His eternal being. If God is self-contained pre-creation then He could A) remain self-contained (and true to His eternal triune life) or B) be over-flowing (and different to His eternal triune life). But if we want a God who is truly revealed then we need a God who is always expressing Himself – an eternal Word. Once we grant this, there is good news. For if the Father has always shone outwards in Christ then when I receive that shining I’m receiving the eternal God in His eternal nature. Jesus then truly reveals, not obscures, God.

Ok, so it’s important to hold onto the outgoing-ness of God. But how do we speak of it without making creation necessary to God?

Well Jonathan Edwards in his unpublished essay on the trinity speaks of this eternal outgoing-ness like this:

[God’s pleasure]… is a pleasure in diffusing and communicating to, rather than in receiving from, the creature.

Here Edwards is affirming the primordially gracious character of the Trinity. God is Giver. And forever has been. To the person who objects that this makes God dependent upon a recipient, Edwards makes this wonderful point:

Surely, it is no argument of [neediness] in God that he is inclined to communicate of his infinite fullness. It is no argument of the emptiness or deficiency of a fountain, that it is inclined to overflow

The Fountain of Life does not become something He’s not in creation. Rather He is truly Himself in it. Creation does not fulfil a need in God, not at all. But it does express a super-abundance. It shows us a life-giving grace to the Father which goes all the way down and all the way back


@philm Hey!

Perhaps I should have explained what I meant by “need” in my original post, but I’m glad you mentioned it, this way I can clarify. I agree with you, God doesn’t need anything from us, in the sense that He is lacking some “thing”. He’s not looking for some “thing” He’s looking for some “one”. He wants to have a relationship with us. I don’t think wanting to be in a relationship makes you less perfect, I think it’s a result of perfection. It’s because He is perfect that He can truly want to be with us, solely for us, and not wanting anything from us. For example, let’s say there was a king who had it all, palace, money, kingdom, land, but he wanted someone to share it with. Does that make him less perfect? I don’t think so, I think wanting to share it with someone else is an outflow of his perfection. If he didn’t want to share it with someone else, that would seem somewhat strange or lacking. Because it’s only when you are perfect that you can truly want to be with someone simply for them, and not because you’re trying to get something from them. God doesn’t need any “thing” from us, just us.


Yes. And I would dare to take this idea of God having needs even further:
the idea of “need” can throw some folks for a spin. From my perspective it is an amazing word and there’s are some amazing ideas behind the word. Hopefully I might be able to share one of these aspects for you to consider.

The first thing to realize about need, is that it is closely tied to purpose. And since purposes very from one person to the next, or from one thing to the next the needs for different people and different things are different, and continue to change across the board as time occurs and as things develop. The life of a seed buried deep in the ground may not need sunlight until it pops its head out of the ground. And it may not need water until it is placed into the ground. Later in the story of its development it may have other needs to serve other purposes. For example, it may need fertilization or weeding in order to produce fruit, These needs are valid. They should be accounted for and decently expected. God is not like the Pharaoh who commanded the Israelite slaves to lay bricks without producing the needed materials (that’s a bad idea). Our God is a great provider. He’s a planner, a planter and a harvester who “needs” weeders and water-ers and all sorts of laborers to work according to his purposes. Generally speaking God cannot do it alone. His body has a purpose. We are his body. He loves his body and he needs his body. If purposes involve needs and if God has great purposes, why would God not have great and amazing needs?

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(God is love) His love is made complete in us :slight_smile: 1 John 4:7-12
Wow, I don’t think about this enough, but I see your point @joncarp

Our existence is to glorify God, but that answer still does not satisfy our friends and family that don’t know God. God is good and his mercy endures forever :slight_smile: There is no easy way to answer this question without experiencing love.

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This thread has some very interesting points. I love to learn and I get so much out of hearing from you all.

It’s more pertinent to me as 21 years ago I was paralyzed in a firefighting accident. Sean, your 2 Cor 416-18 verses were ones that I had just memorized prior to my injury. I do wish that the Lord had taken me home at the time as I would have never known what hit me!

As I age, (I’m 69) I pray that the Lord takes me home before I am ever a burden to my family. Even as a Christian, as paraplegia mingles with fatigue, I get weary as I finish the race but don’t know where the finish line is!

(Hey Tabitha, good to “see” you again! You should join our memorization group as you quoted 1 John 4:7-12 and, though we are only in 1 John 1, we are memorizing the whole book so will eventually incorporate those verses into our brains!)


@timotto. Just wondered. If GOD cannot do some things without us; doesn’t that make Him human, not GOD? I think I understand our living with purpose but I can’t connect that to a need GOD has. It sounds like the purpose of living for JESUS is for our benefit. How else could Agape ever be understood? The truest most salient thing we declare about Agape is that it defies exclamation and understanding. We can’t understand why even as we receive it. But the Creator who spoke the world into existence should not need humans. Perhaps want us, but need us?


Hey @Tim_Ramey,
I have asked this same question during some of my darkest times, so from my perspective this question of existence and eternal punishment doesn’t seem to have a simple answer. On the other hand, how could anyone not love Jesus as you come to truly know him through the Holy Spirit.

Tim it’s so good to hear from you and I will be praying for your health and continued strength. I have missed the Bible Memorization group. I’m currently doing a Bible Study in my home about “The Gospel in Every Book of the Old Testament” by Joseph Farah and I am still reading through the entire Bible a chapter or two a day. My love for Christ continues to grow and I find so much joy in love and fellowship with my bible study group.

I’m curious to hear what others are saying about this tough question.


@ChristinaGraceDanny, you have several good responses. I am posting mainly to direct your attention to thoughts from Dr. Vince Vitale’s book - Why Suffering? But before I share those, a few thoughts of my own in response to your question.

My first thoughts were that we dont see the end from the beginning as God does. The Bible says in 1Peter 1:20 that Christ was chosen from the creation of the world but revealed to us later in time. Between the easy way of non-existence of man and the difficult way of creating and redeeming man by entering man’s sinful world, God chose the latter! That shows God’s love for His creation! That shows the worth He places on man! Perhaps there is no other way to make a man who freely chooses to love Him. When Adam sinned, He could have ended all humanity, but He has given a grace period, a second chance to freely choose Him and the promise of a new creation for the redeemed souls. The idea of mankind free from all suffering and entirely loving is unknown to our experience but not to God’s! If God had chosen non-existence, He would have also erased with it the possibility for love. So he created man but sadly man sinned. Ending mankind in response to sin is easy but it also lets evil win. Instead, God chose to let love win, overcame evil with good and invites us to be part of His solution in Christ. Dr.Vitale gives the example of parents choosing to have children despite the birthpains and the evil in this world. If we make that choice, why not God? Similarly, if we are gracious toward our children when they are disobedient, how much more God toward His children? I hope this gives some food for thought.

A few thoughts from Dr Vince Vitale’s book. A link to the article is here:

  1. If you need a good God to account for evil, then you can’t disprove that good God with evil.

People are not morally valuable only insofar as they can be put to use for the survival of the species. No. Each and every individual has an intrinsic and inalienable moral worth. And this worth is no less when old age or disability or disease or any number of other things threatens to make us less useful for the evolutionary goal of survival.

  1. If God has good reasons for allowing suffering, we should know what those reasons are ( an error in thinking)

If God is as great as Christians claim He is, then sometimes not fully grasping the fullness of his reasons is exactly what we should expect. And if it’s exactly what we should expect to find if God does exist, then our finding it can’t be strong evidence that God does not exist.

  1. According to Christianity, what God values above all is relationship. But for relationship to be meaningful, it must be freely chosen; for relationship to be freely chosen, there must be the possibility of it being rejected; and wherever there is the possibility of rejecting relationship, there is also the possibility of pain and suffering…Right from the very beginning, it is in God’s response to suffering that we see the love of God most clearly, a love that refuses to give up on us even when we use our free will to cause great suffering.

  2. This is what it takes to be you.

Could God have wronged you by creating a world in which you came to exist and are offered eternal life, rather than creating a different world in which you never would have lived?

  1. Suffering changes character

Without the possibility of significant suffering, practically every great true story in history would be false.

  1. God suffers with us

The loving parent is not the one who never allows suffering in a child’s life. The loving parent is the one who is willing to suffer alongside their children. And in Christianity this is exactly what we find.

  1. God’s perspective is different from ours.

On the Christian understanding of reality, what we currently see is only the first few moments of life—literally just the birthing process of human history! We will always come up short if we attempt to find the full explanation for suffering in this life alone. This life is only the smallest fraction of our lives. We are going to live forever. And even though right now we live in a harsh, broken world, Jesus promises that one day “everyone who calls on [Him]” will live in a world that will be good to us (see e.g., Romans 10:13, Acts 2:21, Joel 2:32).

When suffering comes, when death comes, who will bear it with us? Who will see us through it?

God bless,


I realize I could be crossing the line on being a bit too provocative: saying God CAN NOT. Do certain things when God is God. And as Jesus said that if his disciples would cease to praise him that the stones would cry out So he didn’t “Need” his disciples to praise him.

Also, It’s true God can do as he pleases. He’s not constrained by the “can’t do’s” like a man.

That being said however, God has made decisions along the way that give us general details about His purposes and about how he performs his purposes. I’m not saying he couldn’t choose to step outside of his regularly scheduled programming to accomplish his means differently, but I am saying that he has established a body (his church) as his channel through which he operates. Having set things up this way he’s established a reliance on his body. God depends on us. In other words, although he could have set up his system in such a way that didn’t require us, he chose to set himself up in a way that does need us. And just like you can clearly recognize that you are set up with a body, and you need your body to accomplish your purposes we can understand that although God wouldn’t have had to set himself up with the church as his body (to accomplish His purposes) He did.

Hi there.
Really incredible answers and deep & gentle reasoning within the responses. Maybe I would just add that the burden of existence comes from the profound need the human being have of connecting with God?
Such a connection is not run the same for each one, as some of us are difficult to be approached by the Lord, due to the fact we live in a broken world.
Your atheist friend is right about his/her consent was not taken for bringing him/her to existence but at this stage of his/her (important: ‘free’) existence he/she can put his/her trust in God in order to deal with the burden of existence.
I hope this helps.
Blessings from Peru, Aldo

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@timotto. I think we agree except on some differences in wording. What you call GOD’s purpose is what I call GOD’s will. I associate purpose with our needs not GOD’s. We agree that the body works on behalf of the physical need, but we slightly differ on the idea that our purposes can not be accomplished without the body. Anyone operating with disabilities knows that the body has purpose but that purposeful living can not be pre-empted by a broken body.

Based upon circumstances identified in scriptures I know GOD will use a burning bush that talks but is not consumed by fire. I know He will give language skills to a donkey carrying a prophet of GOD. He has written on the wall prophetic words to a King without the benefit of a body. He has closed the mouth of hungry, killer Lions in a den with a man. He walked upon water made solid like the ground. So many ways utilized to assure that His will is done. I guess I see obedience to be the justifier for fulfilling GOD’s purpose/will, not a need for mankind.

But after concluding that, I must agree with you. I don’t know why GOD is mindful of mankind; but oh am I glad. :slightly_smiling_face:

I appreciate some of the other answers, especially regarding the fact that our life is in fact meaningless without Christ, so you can connect directly to the Gospel, and our hope.
But I think they’ve missed the most important issue, which is implied in you question: we are creatures.
Fundamental to Christianity is the creator - creature distinction, the fact that God is holy, completely different and independent of his creation, while we are finite, and fully dependent for every second upon God’s grace.
The fact is, God has the right to do whatever pleases him with his creatures, but this is hard to accept because of our pride. We are the clay, and he is the Potter. I would recommend reading God’s responses to Jon questioning him, which illustrate that we have no right whatsoever to question God. But, if we believe, we can trust in him always, and be confident that he is working all things for his glory and our good.


Nice… And I get it… It makes no sense whatsoever… For me, the part that makes no sense is not why God is mindful of us… But rather why he loves us. Paul kinda says this same thing in Romans 5:7-8 explaining that it is nonsense that a man would die for a blameworthy guilty sinner and that it’s near to crazy that someone would dare to die for a good man. But God in his not-seemingly-logical-and-seems-like-crazy-love, dared to actually do it. I realize Paul didn’t use the word crazy. But in the context he makes the point that it certainly it would be reckless and that it makes no logical sense, Except for the fact that God actually loves us with all his heart

The point you make about the disabilities of the body (especially when it is broken or unwilling or impossible to do what needs to be done) is very good.

It’s actually what I was trying to encapsulate in my original post here about how impossible things are many times not resolved by things we can do (that’s why they’re impossible) but rather by following God and being the characters God has created us to BE.

Disabilities, (or as I phrase it “impossibilities”) are a hefty entry point into considering a lot of this stuff.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5)

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This is like asking what’s the point of life but God’s plan was not for life to be horrible for people. In Genesis the Garden of Eden was a beautiful and place. Life became chaotic after Adam disobeyed God and bit the forbidden fruit. Adam and Eve were children who learned the consequences of disobedience. We’re no different. The world’s terrible state is our own doing and if one is honest all they need to do is look all around to know that’s how badly we have messed things up. Personally, if I had had a say in being born I would have said yes. No in spite of the hardships and challenges, but because of them and the mountaintop moments too. Why? Because it made me who I am today and helped me to know my Savior in the most beautiful and loving way possible. There have been too many who never had a choice thanks to abortion and murder - choices made by man, and hated by God. I think most of us have known some people that we love dearly who would say they’d rather not be here. Yet think back on times when you needed those people most in your life. Without them who knows what would have become of you and of all the other people who were affected and influenced by those incidentally ungrateful numbers? Simply put no one is an accident waiting to happen. God doesn’t create mistakes or failures. No one is an unwanted and unloved accident. We are ALLs here for a good purpose and we won’t always know why until we choose Jesus. God is our Father. As our Parent, consider this: What loving parent would give birth and life to their child without giving them all they need for the best life possible? Granted, everyone has to deal with the burdens of life. God didn’t create us for His entertainment. Like Jesus, we also deal with the burdens of life. He never made us experience anything He wasn’t willing to endure for us. People who ask such questions don’t know Jesus or they wouldn’t ask. Think about it this way: How do any of us know we didn’t consent to being conceived? Maybe some did and changed their minds later - I would venture to guess after sin ruined their joy and lives. Besides, how you ask anything or do anything when you don’t yet exist? That’s kind of funny when you think about it. Try asking a sperm cell or an egg, see how that works for you. For me, joy of life comes through keeping my focus on Heaven,not on this world. We need to help everyone to seek the Kingdom of God so they can love life too. May God Bless and Keep you, Alix

Thank you all so much for your replies and detailed thoughts. I have definitely got so much from the discussion. I wanted to reply for everyone separately. But, got a bit busy. So, kindly accept this thank you as a personal reply to each one of you.