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Will god create and put you in trouble or allow trouble? Or he save us from trouble

@lou.phillips, sorry without your permission I am tagging since I am new and don’t know how to approach. I have a question. I wish I could write a detailed version of it with the incidents from my life as some examples. But instead of lengthy, I am just posting it as shorter one.

My belief is god will not create a trouble and put you in it. He helps/saves/delivers me from the troubles in any of the form. Sometimes he do it faster and sometimes he do it holding for sometime as he use this for our good.
For example if he give sickness and he only heals, will that make sense. Similarly other troubles. If he do so, don’t we call it forcing me/us to be with him or love him or pray to him. If any closed ones in our life, do the same with us, do we say “oh!yes, even though you are the creator of problem, but you did it for my good. I will be with you only and you repeat the same.”. I don’t think someone will say, rather we tag them that 'they have cheated/forced me". Most of the followers/believers have this understanding that god will put you in troubles for your good. Then where is true love. It’s just a blind faith or fear that he might curse/punish you for not to be with him…

Can you please help me with it. My belief or understanding is that god is good and love. That is why Jesus came in to the world and he healed many and he dies for us. God will not create a trouble or put you in trouble, he helps to come out of it.

Yes, a very profound and difficult question. IF I am honest, I think I have seen far too many on either side of the aisle make God out to be something he is not. The relation of God to the bad things that happen is more nuanced than we are comfortable with. We want it to be well, He is either this, or He is that.

In so many ways I agree with you, we must make sure we dont make God out to be the “bad” guy or be inconsistent with his perfect nature. But I also think our understanding of him is not perfect because we are flawed.

Here is what I mean.

Lets take Job for a second. God initiates the whole thing. God then gives Satan permission to only do what God gives him permission to do. It appears that Satan is like a dog on a leash. God gives him enough rope to hang himself and thwart whatever he was trying to accomplish. But God was in control of the entire situation. Wouldn’t the most loving thing do be, not brining up this little test trail with Satan?? Or maybe not.

And what about Joseph? God literally has his hand in the whole thing but its an utter misery for him for years and years… only to see that God planned to save the nation of Israel through him.

In his divine justice God also sent the plagues and death angel into Egypt. God did, not satan.

Then we get to the New Testament.
John 9, disciples ask Jesus “why is this guy blind, because of his sin or his parents?” Christ says, neither, He is blind so that the work of God could be displayed in his life. Wait a second, put yourself into the shoes of this blind guy. So God is ok with you being blind your whole life so that when Jesus does meet him, God can be glorified?? Thats hard to digest initially.

Lastly, ananias and saphira. God literally strikes them dead because they lied about the money they got for selling their property.

And honestly there are plenty more hard passages where it is hard to know what is Gods role.

But I dont give you these examples to undermine your understanding, I want you to see why its more of a complex issue. Like I said, its more nuanced.

Here is my approach to it, I know there are three things out there that are my enemies - the flesh, the world and the enemy of our souls. As a Christian, I am no longer at enmity with God, but these three things are always at play. Where is God’s role in it all? I am not sure we have the ability of pinpointing each time.
But here is the greatest news. God is sovereign over all of it. God is not at the mercy fo my flesh, the world or satan. God is all powerful, all loving, but also All Just.

I can Trust a sovereign God when things dont make sense because I know that he works all things out for good for those who love him and do his will. I dont have to worry about what Gods role is in it all, I can trust that regardless he is Good even when it doesnt seem like it.

If God planned, and had his hand in the worst thing that ever happened in history of humanity (christ dying on the cross), it tells me that he is able to be WHOLY good even when it seems like He isnt.

The CROSS is the answer. Where is God? Right there in the middle of it, taking it all on to show that He truly does love us and that we can trust him even if we think his inaction or action is wrong. HE is never wrong, but we often are.

Honestly this is a discussions that Christians have been having for millennia. My challenge to myself is to dont just come to God with my understanding of what I want him to be, come to Him in all He shows himself to be within scripture. He is far more beautifully complex and divine than we can imagine. But again regardless of where you stand on this issue, both parties have to come to see that because of the Cross his goodness and love for us is clearly on display. This example is too wonderful to undermine.

I hope this makes sense. Like I said, I agree with you in so many ways. But its a complex subject and I think there is a reason why it isnt easy to come to a clear conclusion.

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Rajesh,

Yea I completely understand what you are saying.

I agree. God doesn’t “create” sickness. I just think there is enough evidence in the Bible to say there is an aspect of mystery.

Regarding your story, I think it’s a powerful one to share and I think it all comes down to how you explain it. But I pray that God uses it! I see that you want to share it for his glory! Keep praying and asking the Lord for guidance as to what He would have you do.

Btw you have a great voice! And I enjoyed watching the music video. Thank you for sharing it!

Lou

Dear @lou.phillips,

I agree with you. I see that you agreed to god doesn’t “create” problems. There might be something to mention me, but you did not, considering my situation. Isn’t it.

Reason I posted my question here is that for a word in the Bible, people have different approach and beliefs. For each argument people can show (their) scripture from bible. I don’t have a knowledge or faith like you. And I am keep on getting confused for the way there is difference in understanding in god’s word. I attend some bible studies and I do participate in blogs like this(my motive is to learn) and I see this difference and got struck. But of course there are other books/articles etc which helped me to learn something.
But this one, I was not sure whether to continue or not. I mean I can not hate him and at the same time I am unable to accept he creates troubles. With this question, I cannot love god with my whole heart and I can not release song or cannot share my testimony in any of the form.
Now can you please guide me what should/can I do. Kindly include me in your prayers. I wish I can come out of this very quick. I thank you for your patience and time. At least there’s someone who tried to understand what I mean…

Hello! Thank you for this great question!

I have a couple specific verses that come to mind when I think about this…

Matthew 15:25 So she came and got down on her knees before Him, saying, “Master, help me!”

We see how this woman addresses Jesus… as MASTER. This word in the Greek, which the New Testament was written, means something like, “The one with the power to DECIDE”. She submitted herself completely to Jesus whim asking Him for mercy. The passage concludes like this:

Matthew 15:28 Then answering, Yeshua said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed in that very hour.

He haralds her for her faith and Trust. This is exactly how Jesus wants us to respond to Him - with submission and reverence. It may not come in this lifetime, but when we go to heaven, God will restore us into His perfect image for us.

Rom. 9:15 For to Moses He says,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

In short, it is not about US at all. It is all about Christ and His perfect sacrifice FOR US. Our response should not be to God, “It is not fair” but rather, “You are the King”

I would be remiss if I didn’t talk about Free Will vs Predestination if I am quoting Romans 9, so let me give my very very brief and incomplete understanding how God’s Sovereignty works with our Free Will.

I believe we DO have Free Will as it would not be possible for there to be a concept of DECIDING if there was no reality to DECIDING. That word I quoted about what “master” means in Matthew 15:25 demonstrates that BECAUSE we have this CONCEPT of Free Will means that Free Will must be in some sense a reality since we cannot know what is-not. In other words, if the concept of Free Will was completely fallacious, then there wouldn’t be such a concept of it in the first place since if God created everything, then he created man with the ability to form the concept of Free Will.

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. It should be CRYSTAL CLEAR that God’s Will is supremely more powerful than our Free Will as He says to the prophet:

Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb,
I knew you,
and before you were born,
I set you apart—
I appointed you prophet to the
nations.”

So what shall we say? Is God supreme or did God give us the ability of free choice? I believe that it is that when we exercise our Free Will we do so in ACCORDANCE to God’s Sovereignty and not in spite of it.

Rajesh,

sorry for the delay in my response.
Again, I think there is an aspect of mystery here that makes us uncomfortable.

But here is my encouragement to you. Regardless of where you stand on this issue, looking to Christ and him crucified tells you the character and nature of God. A God that is willing to die on a cross for your sins and mine cannot also be a God who isnt just. Christ in his mercy came to this world to save us, but in his justice paid for our sin so we wouldn’t have to. How God works out all of the details of our lives can be more nuanced than we think but he has already shown himself faithful, just and loving at the Cross. That information alone is why I can trust him and know that He is good. You can love God with your whole heart and release that song if you believe what the Bible says he has done for you.

I hope this helps.

Lou

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Dear @lou.phillips, thank you for writing back. Some of the people are saying to me that there are many reasons for my struggling. Some reasons can be seen and some can’t be seen. They said my sin is also one of the reason. In the above reply you said that Jesus has paid for both of our sin then where is this concept called my sin is the reason for my suffering.

I know that I might be sounding as a rebel by asking these questions but my goal is to get the answers ( not all of them; atleast to some which can help me to grow in him) and be with god. I can not hate him for many reasons, all I wanted to have some clear mind and vision to love him whole heartedly.

I agree, I think any “trouble” that happens as a result of just being is an opportunity to check my character. My reaction inside myself shows me who I am. My actions outside show you who I might be. The Love of God is still there because he loves me so much he wants me to Abide inside himself continually. Without this gentle power on my insides as I yield my “rights” to him that can’t happen. That Love will help me change in a way not possible by the human will to make it happen. I call it soul pain. It sounds bad but it is the best thing ever because of the result on the other side if I quit just pushing through it and instead ask him about it and do the simplest thing I see after that that doesn’t break obvious wrong. Life comes at salvation, Life more abundant comes with discipleship on the inside of me.

Rajesh,

Sin has consequences that we face here in this life. However, I think it is very dangerous to tell someone “hey, your suffering is a result of your sin.” The Bible doesn’t give us that position often. Because often it is unknown. Something I have heard Tim Keller say is “Not all storms in life are a result of sin, but All sin will bring a storm”. We dont know always why storms come, sometimes its because of our decisions, other times its completely outside of our decisions. This is why I say its more nuanced. I dont think you are a rebel at all, I understand the frustration, because often we want black and white answers… but I am sorry to say its just more nuanced.

But again, regardless of the struggle now… where do you go? The God of Christianity says come to me in the storm, and I will be enough. We live in a broken world where we ourselves are broken. Pain and suffering are multi-faceted. But God has consistently been good always and has proven himself faithful. If his character was wicked, then yes, I would agree that it would be hard to love him. But his character from the beginning of time has been Good. Its you and me that often can tell that he is doing a good thing in the midst of the pain and suffering. WE have a limited scope. But dont let your limited understanding prevent you from seeing that He is trustworthy.

Jesus paid for your sin which means you can trust that even with the storms that may come as a result of that sin, that He will be enough.

But again, I dont think we get the right to tell someone “Hey, your sin is why you are suffering.” I have heard people use that argument for like mental illness and cancer and I think that is Biblically unorthodox. WE cannot say definitively what the Bible doesnt give us the opportunity to do.

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Dear @lou.phillips thank you much. So kindly guide me or help on this problem of mine. Let me tell you how ii is impacting me. If I am reading/watching bible/video, for a moment I will feel like, " God is good and right". And in few moments very few moments later I hear that " no man! How can he force to love you". I am unable to agree with anyone and at the same time I can not agree I have some understanding issue or mental sickness such as illusion or whatever so that I am against god. Kindly help me to overcome this and may be after my recovery I can be with him. You see how instantly I am replying back to you. Please keep me in your prayers.

Rajesh,

I truly appreciate your honesty and vulnerability.
You are not alone in this problem. Many Christians have struggled with these questions.
Have you considered reading a book on God and the problem of pain/suffering? Often, both scripture and books have helped me grapple with this question.

Rajesh, I am praying for you right now and I will have the team pray for you as well today. Please see Connect as a safe place to keep asking your questions. We are here to be your Christian family in a virtual sense haha.

Thank you again.

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@lou.phillips are you referring to a book god and the problem of pain/suffering or asking me to read books on these topics. Kindly suggest me any books/videos which can help me to prevent from this attack and also help me to understand god and helps me to love him with my whole heart.

Thanks for support. Please keep me in your prayers.

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The books I would recommend and have had the most impact on my life are:

Why Suffering? by Ravi Zacharias and Vince Vitale
Walking with God through Pain and suffering by Timothy Keller

Here is a video by Vince Vitale on the topic:

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Dear @lou.phillips thanks for referring. I have watched the video and read the book by Vince and Ravi. It tells me to lean/trust on god, when I am in trouble. But it did not answer my question, what if god is th reason behind my troubles and how to trust him and love him on that scenario. Sorry if I am revert back to old thing.

If Jesus can die for my sin why he(be it father, son and holy spirit) would force me or why he would create/allow. All I am saying with respect to my life events and I am not trying to prove something against god. I need some solution to my problem and may be after sometime I should go to God with my whole heart and release my song…

Kindly help me.

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